[ArtK78]

You are South in first seat.

Scoring: MP

1♣ - (P) - 1♥ - (x)
4♥ - (4♠) - x - (P)
?

---

1) Do you agree with the 1♣ opening bid?
2) Do you agree with the 4♥ call?
3) What now?

[FrancesHinden]

What would 2NT have meant over the double?

If the answer is "a strong heart raise" then our 4H bid last round should have shown this sort of hand, and we pass.

[ArtK78]

2NT would not have been a strong heart raise. It would be a strong balanced hand (ignore the double as noise).

You can splinter (3♦ would be either an invitational to game splinter or a splinter with more than game forcing values, 4♦ would be a game forcing splinter, 3♠ would be a game forcing spade splinter), you could bid 4♣ showing a solid club suit and 4 card heart support (wrong on both points) or you could bid 3♥ invitational. A redouble would be a support redouble - off by two hearts. A pass would deny as many as 3 hearts.

By the way, I am not convinced that a 4♥ bid would show this hand if 2NT were a strong heart raise. Clearly, it would show a distributional raise to 4♥ rather than a power raise to 4♥. But there is a big difference between the actual hand and

A KJxx x AQJxxxx.

I would bid 4♥ on those cards.

The 5th heart makes quite a bit of difference.

[whereagles]

I'm gonna bid 5. Not sure what suit, but definitely not pass.

[FrancesHinden]

ArtK78, on Nov 21 2008, 03:49 PM, said:

2NT would not have been a strong heart raise. It would be a strong balanced hand (ignore the double as noise).

You can splinter (3♦ would be either an invitational to game splinter or a splinter with more than game forcing values, 4♦ would be a game forcing splinter, 3♠ would be a game forcing spade splinter), you could bid 4♣ showing a solid club suit and 4 card heart support (wrong on both points) or you could bid 3♥ invitational. A redouble would be a support redouble - off by two hearts. A pass would deny as many as 3 hearts.

By the way, I am not convinced that a 4♥ bid would show this hand if 2NT were a strong heart raise. Clearly, it would show a distributional raise to 4♥ rather than a power raise to 4♥. But there is a big difference between the actual hand and

A KJxx x AQJxxxx.

I would bid 4♥ on those cards.

The 5th heart makes quite a bit of difference.

On the 1417 I would have bid 4H last round, but I'd definitely pull to 5C this round.

What I'm trying to get at is to understand what 4H actually showed. Could it have been 18-19 2=4=2=5, which I think you have implied? If so, then (i) it's obvious to pull the double and (ii) I would have splintered last round.

{Quick advert for different methods:
I don't usually do this, because I hate people advertising pet methods, but I can't resist it here....

Don't play support redouble. Play:

Pass = <= 3 hearts
1NT = 3-card heart support
2NT = high-card raise to 3H or more
Redouble = strong hand (initially looking for a penalty, but may turn into other things)
}

[jdonn]

I like rebidding 4♣. It tells partner a lot about my hand (more than a splinter I would argue), and takes up lots of room from the opponents. Having bid 4♥ I would pull but it's just a guess really.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 yes
#2 maybe 4D is better, as long as partner takes the
bid as splinter.
#3 5H

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mike777]

4c seems fine over 1h= x.

[ArtK78]

I am curious. A couple of posters have suggested bidding 4♣ over the double.

Normally, the sequence 1m - 1M - 4m shows four card support with at least 6 solid in the minor suit. Does your meaning change over the double or have you eliminated the "solid suit" requirement from your bidding structure?

[jdonn]

ArtK78, on Nov 21 2008, 03:37 PM, said:

Normally, the sequence 1m - 1M - 4m shows four card support with at least 6 solid in the minor suit.

Um, no? Shows 4-6 with good suits to me, don't know where you got solid suit from.

[ArtK78]

jdonn, on Nov 21 2008, 03:42 PM, said:

ArtK78, on Nov 21 2008, 03:37 PM, said:

Normally, the sequence 1m - 1M - 4m shows four card support with at least 6 solid in the minor suit.

Um, no? Shows 4-6 with good suits to me, don't know where you got solid suit from.

Funny. Every example I have ever seen of this sequence involved a solid minor suit. I found one (and only one) discussion of this sequence online. It stated that the double jump rebid showed slam interest and stength concentrated in the two suits. A singleton Ace outside of the two suits is OK, but with that one exception, the high card strength of the hand should be exclusively in the two suits bid.

The example hand given is:

xx AQ9x AKQTxx x

1♦ - 1♥
4♦

Clearly, from the explanation, a solid suit is not required. So 4♣ would have been a reasonable choice on my cards.

So, the next question - if you had bid 4♣ on the hand in this thread, and LHO bid 4♠ and partner doubled, would you sit or pull?

[jdonn]

ArtK78, on Nov 21 2008, 05:31 PM, said:

So, the next question - if you had bid 4♣ on the hand in this thread, and LHO bid 4♠ and partner doubled, would you sit or pull?

No but it's fairly close. It's easy to forget that all partner did was bid a measly 1♥, his hand could be quite bad and on a bad day we have 4 or even 5 tricks to lose. True I have an extra heart which is very nice, but otherwise partner knows about my good clubs, the short spades would hardly be a surprise, and I even have a spade honor. Meanwhile if I'm lucky partner has a stiff club and it's slaughter time.

[mike777]

ArtK78, on Nov 21 2008, 05:31 PM, said:

jdonn, on Nov 21 2008, 03:42 PM, said:

ArtK78, on Nov 21 2008, 03:37 PM, said:

Normally, the sequence 1m - 1M - 4m shows four card support with at least 6 solid in the minor suit.

Um, no? Shows 4-6 with good suits to me, don't know where you got solid suit from.

Funny. Every example I have ever seen of this sequence involved a solid minor suit. I found one (and only one) discussion of this sequence online. It stated that the double jump rebid showed slam interest and stength concentrated in the two suits. A singleton Ace outside of the two suits is OK, but with that one exception, the high card strength of the hand should be exclusively in the two suits bid.

The example hand given is:

xx AQ9x AKQTxx x

1♦ - 1♥
4♦

Clearly, from the explanation, a solid suit is not required. So 4♣ would have been a reasonable choice on my cards.

So, the next question - if you had bid 4♣ on the hand in this thread, and LHO bid 4♠ and partner doubled, would you sit or pull?

I would guess to pass. I told partner about my good hand and 4h and 6clubs.

Partner might respond 1h with a very bad hand.

I understand if partner/opener bids 5H.