[rogerclee]

Scoring: IMP

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How do you bid these two?

[ArtK78]

P - 1♦
1♥ - 3♣
3♠ - 3NT
4♦ - 4♠
5♣ - 6♦

The key to reaching the diamond slam is whether North deems his hand good enough to go past 3NT. That decision is far from clear. But at IMPs, it is worth a shot. The worst that can happen is that you wind up in 4NT or 5♦ instead of 3NT.

[TimG]

It seems strange to me that north would voluntarily go past 3NT with at least one wasted major suit honor and xxx in diamonds.

How about:

P-1♦
1♥-3♣
3♦-

for starters? Now, opener could bid 3♠ and pull responder's 3N to 4♦ (over which responder will surely bid 5♣). Or, opener could bid 4♦ (and again, responder will bid 5♣).

[inquiry]

How do you bid these two?

Scoring: IMP

North = 9 hcp,
North = 3 control points
North = 13 distributional points
North = total 25 ZAR points with four spades. Yup.. I open it!!!! (I understand if most of you strongly disagree)

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1♥ = 2♦
2♥ = 3♣
3♦ = 4♦
4♥ = 6♦
Pass

2D = game force
2H = not strongish enough for 2S or 3D, so warning 2h rebid, easier if bid 3D btw
3C = still game force
3D = support with support now, nt can wait
4D = keycard ask
4H = 1 or 4 keycards
6D = to play.

[awm]

Playing standard methods, I think the normal start is:

PA - 1♦
1♥ - 3♣
3♦ - 3♠

Where the 3♠ call is a cuebid for diamonds. Now north has to make the key decision -- is his hand good enough to cooperate with a slam try or should he bid 3NT? If he bids 3NT then I expect the auction to end -- 3♦ didn't even show a real fit (could be doubleton with no other call) and it would be strange for south to push on opposite what seems a minimum with likely heart wastage (give north ♠xxx ♥KQxxx ♦xx ♣xxx for example and you will be lucky to make 3NT; there is little play for 5♦ much less 6♦).

So what should north do? His singleton club ace is a great card, and ♦xxx is much better than he could have. South could have just bid 3NT on some typical 3-1-5-4 hand with 19 or so high, so it's a good bet that he either has 6♦ or a super-maximum. Of course, north does have potentially wasted slow honors in the majors so I don't think it's obvious to bid on.

In any case, if north bids 4♣ we are off to the races; south can almost blast 6♦ right away, but could also take it slow to look for a grand.

[Al_U_Card]

Yup, North has a 7 loser hand for diamonds opposite a jump-shift and a fit so he better not let it die. After he prefers to 3D, his next bid should be showing that C control.

[Mbodell]

I'm with Inquiry that I might well open the North hand. Assuming I pass it, I'll be in the minority for opening the south strong with a strong 2♣ opening. I know it is unpopular here but I open many/most 4 LTC hands with a strong 2♣ and all 3 LTC hands, which this is, even if it is an awkward one. With my regular SA partners the auction might then be:

P - 2♣
2♥ - 3♦
4♦ - 4NT
5♣ - 6♦

In my methods 2♥ shows 8+ points, a 5+ heart suit with either A♥, K♥, or both. 4NT is 1430 kc.

It clearly isn't a prefect system as we are punting on hoping that we don't have multiple losers in clubs, but at least we are declaring and the opening lead is coming around to us.

In a 2/1 partnership where the North hands open I could see:

1♥-2♦
2♠-3♦
4♦-4♥
4♠-6♦

where the 4♥ was 1430 kickback and the known 5+ hearts with 4+ spades and diamond support tells us about the club situation.

[mikeh]

North has nothing close to an opening bid in normal methods.

S has a clear jumpshift.

North owns 3, count them, 3 trump and a great club holding: Ax would be better, but stiff ace with 3 trump is pretty good. Bidding 3♠ seems utterly misdirected: I simply don't understand how that can be correct.

3♦ not only at least begins to say we like diamonds (at the moment, it is a mere preference, but if we bid over 3N, it becomes real support) and, most importantly, allows opener to confess to 3 card heart support.

As it is, opener will bid 3N over 3♦, and now we have a choice of forward going moves. I'm not sure exactly what: I think 4♦ is best. 4♣ may appeal as a cuebid, but how would we bid xxx Axxxx Qx K10x? I think I'd bid 3♦ then 4♣ to suggest clubs as trump.. picture Ax x AKxxx AQJxx... it would have been premature to raise 3♣ since clubs need not even be 4 cards in length for the 3♣ call.

[kenrexford]

P-1♦
1♥-3♣
3♦-3NT
4♦*-4♠**
5♣***-6♦****

*Agree with 4♦ -- 4♣ would be natural.
**4♠ cue; 4♥ would be RKCB for me.
***Bypassed 4NT because no trump honor; 5♣ because top club and just cause
****Responder cannot be cooperating with the dubious heart King and just Q-high clubs.

[benlessard]

North can make a move over 3nt. He can make 3 trick facing a minors jump-shift. On a bad day 5D will go down but the risk is lower then the risk of missing 6 if you pass 3Nt.

[gnasher]

inquiry, on Jul 8 2008, 09:18 PM, said:

North = 9 hcp,
North = 3 control points
North = 13 distributional points
North = total 25 ZAR points with four spades. Yup.. I open it!!!!

Does this method of evaluation take into account the fact that North's ace is a singleton?

[Trinidad]

mikeh, on Jul 8 2008, 05:10 PM, said:

North has nothing close to an opening bid in normal methods.

S has a clear jumpshift.

North owns 3, count them, 3 trump and a great club holding: Ax would be better, but stiff ace with 3 trump is pretty good. Bidding 3♠ seems utterly misdirected: I simply don't understand how that can be correct.

3♦ not only at least begins to say we like diamonds (at the moment, it is a mere preference, but if we bid over 3N, it becomes real support) and, most importantly, allows opener to confess to 3 card heart support.

As it is, opener will bid 3N over 3♦, and now we have a choice of forward going moves. I'm not sure exactly what: I think 4♦ is best. 4♣ may appeal as a cuebid, but how would we bid xxx Axxxx Qx K10x? I think I'd bid 3♦ then 4♣ to suggest clubs as trump.. picture Ax x AKxxx AQJxx... it would have been premature to raise 3♣ since clubs need not even be 4 cards in length for the 3♣ call.

Just to get things straight. We are talking about what North would do with:

♠xxx
♥Axxxx
♦Qx
♣K10x

after

North

Spoiler

...

South
Pass

Spoiler

....

1♦
1♥

Spoiler

........

3♣
3♦

Spoiler

........

3NT
??

To me that seems a non problem pass. You indicated that yourself:

Quote

3♦ not only at least begins to say we like diamonds (at the moment, it is a mere preference, but if we bid over 3N, it becomes real support)

Since you don't have real diamonds support, you cannot bid past 3NT.

The only hand type that I can come up with where 4♣ might be suggesting a strain is a hand that has:
- genuine diamond support (as you mentioned yourself)
- longer clubs than diamonds

This would be something like a 0445 or 1534 pattern, where I gave false preference to diamonds since 3♣ might have been bid on a fake suit. But for that unlikely event, I am not going to give up the 4♣ cue bid. More so since there are many possible auctions where I may suggest a club slam later in the auction if I really have the 0445 or 1534 hand.

Rik

[effervesce]

Trinidad, on Jul 9 2008, 05:41 AM, said:

mikeh, on Jul 8 2008, 05:10 PM, said:

North has nothing close to an opening bid in normal methods.

S has a clear jumpshift.

North owns 3, count them, 3 trump and a great club holding: Ax would be better, but stiff ace with 3 trump is pretty good. Bidding 3♠ seems utterly misdirected: I simply don't understand how that can be correct.

3♦ not only at least begins to say we like diamonds (at the moment, it is a mere preference, but if we bid over 3N, it becomes real support) and, most importantly, allows opener to confess to 3 card heart support.

As it is, opener will bid 3N over 3♦, and now we have a choice of forward going moves. I'm not sure exactly what: I think 4♦ is best. 4♣ may appeal as a cuebid, but how would we bid xxx Axxxx Qx K10x? I think I'd bid 3♦ then 4♣ to suggest clubs as trump.. picture Ax x AKxxx AQJxx... it would have been premature to raise 3♣ since clubs need not even be 4 cards in length for the 3♣ call.

Just to get things straight. We are talking about what North would do with:

♠xxx
♥Axxxx
♦Qx
♣K10x

after

North

Spoiler

...

South
Pass

Spoiler

....

1♦
1♥

Spoiler

........

3♣
3♦

Spoiler

........

3NT
??

To me that seems a non problem pass.

Huh. Non - problem pass? After that 1♦ and 3♣ jumpshift, GF, opener is extremely likely to hold 10 minor cards - 6-4 or 5-5. With the 18+ jumpshift, I'd be thinking his hand is can easily have

Ax x AKxxxx AQxx

or

Ax x AKxxx AQxxx