[Gottis]

If I join a team-game as a sub and 1 or 2 boards are remaining,, and lets say score is very bad for us, 4-51,2 last boards are pushes. As a sub do I take all those bad imps into my well statistic.

[inquiry]

Not sure what your well statistic is, but if you check myhands (which can show your average imps), boards you did not play will not be included (shown). Those negative imps BELONG to someone else and will show up on their myhand searches. Of course, your "team" still loses the match, if you win the last two boards, your team just loses less one-sided.

[Old York]

inquiry, on May 21 2008, 08:27 AM, said:

Those negative imps BELONG to someone else and will show up on their myhand searches.

And so it should be, but there is one important exception.
If a player makes a sabotage bid, and then exits, the bad board will be inherited by the sub and will show on the sub's and dummy's myhands.
There should be some way that TD can cancel the board completely
If I am called to the table, I adjust the score before subbing, but dummy is still punished....... is it possible to adjust the hand to pass-out?
Tony

[TylerE]

Old York, on May 30 2008, 07:16 AM, said:

If I am called to the table, I adjust the score before subbing, but dummy is still punished....... is it possible to adjust the hand to pass-out?
Tony

Leaving aside for the moment the fact that the laws give you no right to adjust in this situation, awarding the same score to both sides is hardly fair.

Quote

Law 12C1

    When, owing to an irregularity, no result can be obtained, the Director awards an artificial adjusted score according to responsibility for the irregularity: average minus (at most 40% of the available matchpoints in pairs) to a contestant directly at fault; average (50% in pairs) to a contestant only partially at fault; average plus (at least 60% in pairs) to a contestant in no way at fault (see Law 86 for team play or Law 88 for pairs play). The scores awarded to the two sides need not balance.

Now, again ignoring for the moment that a table result was actually attained, to pretend that the board never happened isn't fair to EITHER side, or the field in general.

[Old York]

I did say that I was talking about sabotage bids. Sabotage bids are a deliberate attempt to ruin everyone else's scores....so why allow the score to stand?

[TylerE]

Because the law has no concept of 'sabotage bids'. A player may make any legal call at his turn to bid. If player opens 7NT, and then redoubles, no law violation has occured, thus there is no grounds to make an adjustment.

[Old York]

TylerE, on May 30 2008, 12:46 PM, said:

Because the law has no concept of 'sabotage bids'

Then, the law is an ass

[TylerE]

Hardly. In any case, where do you draw the line? If someone opens 4♠ in 1st on ♠xxxxxxx ♥ xx ♦ xx ♣ xx and the opps miss their cold slam, is that a 'sabotage' bid?

[david_c]

TylerE, on May 30 2008, 01:46 PM, said:

Because the law has no concept of 'sabotage bids'.

It's true that there is no explicit mention of "sabotage bids", but there are laws which deal generally with disruption of the game. I would rule that it is covered by Law 74C6 ("showing an obvious lack of further interest in a deal"), also arguably 74A2 and 74B1.

TylerE said:

In any case, where do you draw the line?

There may be a judgement to be made. But that's what we have TDs for.

[TylerE]

While those laws may be applicable, they would be in the form of a procedural penalty, not a score adjustment.

[david_c]

Law 12A2: The Director may award an artificial adjusted score if no rectification can be made that will permit normal play of the board.

Does this apply to boards which have been "sabotaged"? That is a matter of interpretation. A TD could easily interpret 12A2/C1 as allowing him to cancel the board and award averages.

[helene_t]

Old York, on May 30 2008, 01:16 PM, said:

There should be some way that TD can cancel the board completely
If I am called to the table, I adjust the score before subbing, but dummy is still punished....... is it possible to adjust the hand to pass-out?

Adjusting to pass-out is a bad idea because if the non-offending pair (or the innocent sub) belongs in a positive score, they would get a bad result.

I see nothing wrong with adjusting to Ave in case the board was "sabotaged" before the sub came. (Maybe the nonoffending pair feel they have the right to Ave+, but that would be unfair to the sub since BBO does not allow split-scores).

That said, I find it difficult to identify sabotage bids. I am not disputing that they exist (nor am I suggesting that you don't do a good job by adjusting those hands), but if someone makes a crazy bid and then leaves as soon as the dummy appears, their is a suggestion that the crazy bidder thought he was making the right bid (or at least a reasonable gamble) and then decided to leave after he saw that the dummy was not was he was hoping for. After all, if he just wanted to mess it up he might as well have left immediately instead of making the crazy bid. OTOH if he enjoys making crazy bids for the sake of it there is no reason he would leave just because he got his expected -1700.

For example, suppose it goes
2♦-pass-4♥-dbl
all pass

4♥x in a 1-4 fit. A possible interpretation is that the 4♥ bidder thought that 2♦ was multi and his 4♥ was p/c.

[jtfanclub]

TylerE, on May 30 2008, 08:51 AM, said:

While those laws may be applicable, they would be in the form of a procedural penalty, not a score adjustment.

No, the director may adjust the score.

Leaving the table early is a Violation of Procedure. Law 74C8
For the Rectification of Errors of Procedure, I may assign an adjusted score. Law 82B1.

A lot of people miss the "or" in Law 12.

Law 12 Director's Discretionary Powers.
A. Right to award an Adjusted Score
The Director may award an adjusted score (or scores), either on his own initiative or on the application of any player, but only when these Laws empower him to do so, OR:

1. Laws provide No Indemnity
The Director may award an assigned adjusted score when he judges that these Laws do not provide indemnity to the non-offending contestant for the particular type of violation of law committed by the opponent.

2. Normal Play of the Board is Impossible.
The Director may award an artificial adjusted score if no rectification can be made that will permit normal play of the board. (See law 88)


LAW 74
CONDUCT AND ETIQUETTE
A. Proper Attitude
1. Courtesy
A player should maintain a courteous attitude at all times.
2. Etiquette of Word and Action
A player should carefully avoid any remark or action that might cause annoyance or embarrassment to another player or might interfere with the enjoyment of the game.
3. Conformity to Correct Procedure
Every player should follow uniform and correct procedure in calling and playing.


B. Etiquette
As a matter of courtesy a player should refrain from:
1. paying insufficient attention to the game.
2. making gratuitous comments during the auction and play.
3. detaching a card before it is his turn to play.
4. prolonging play unnecessarily (as in playing on although he knows that all the tricks are surely his) for the purpose of disconcerting an opponent.
5. summoning and addressing the Director in a manner discourteous to him or to other contestants.


C. Violations of Procedure
The following are considered violations of procedure:
1. using different designations for the same call.
2. indicating approval or disapproval of a call or play.
3. indicating the expectation or intention of winning or losing a trick that has not been completed.
4. commenting or acting during the auction or play so as to call attention to a significant occurrence, or to the number of tricks still required for success.
5. looking intently at any other player during the auction and play, or at another player's hand as for the purpose of seeing his cards or of observing the place from which he draws a card (but it is appropriate to act on information acquired by inadvertently seeing an opponent's card ).
6. showing an obvious lack of further interest in a deal (as by folding one's cards).
7. varying the normal tempo of bidding or play for the purpose of disconcerting an opponent.
8. leaving the table needlessly before the round is called.



LAW 82
RECTIFICATION OF ERRORS OF PROCEDURE
A. Director's Duty
It is the duty of the Director to rectify errors of procedure and to maintain the progress of the game in a manner that is not contrary to these Laws.

B. Rectification of Error
To rectify an error in procedure the Director may:
1. Award of Adjusted Score
award an adjusted score as permitted by these Laws.
2. Specify Time of Play
require or postpone the play of a board.