[jdonn]

Axx
KT
AKxx
AKxx

opposite

x
xxxx
QTx
QJ9xx

west deals, r/r imps

(1♠) DBL (2♠) DBL
(P) 3♠ (P) 4♥
P P P

[cherdano]

100% North, the responsive double shows at most 4 hearts and another place to play. Of course the responsive double also shows some values and South's hand has little to do with what he bid, but that wasn't the reason for playing in a 4-2 fit here.

[CSGibson]

I would say that south is culpable. I play that the responsive double should say that south has the minors. With hearts he should just bid them. The responsive double also promises more values than what was shown. After the responsive double, I understand the move toward slam with both minors still in play, especially opposite a potential stiff spade.

After 4 hearts, I think N was afraid that any move he made was forward going towards a heart slam, so did the best he could to limit the damage by passing.

If S just bids 3 hearts the first time (or 2NT if playing good/bad 2NT), N can bid 3NT, and you live happily ever after.

[pclayton]

Initial double - fine.

1. Hate the responsive double. Pretty vile.

2. Cue seems foisted with a prime 21.

3. 4♥? Handhog central. 4♣ is better.

4. Pass. WTF? Never in a million years.

North is stupid - South is arrogant.

[CSGibson]

pclayton, on Apr 10 2008, 09:58 PM, said:

2. Cue seems foisted with a prime 21.

I had to look it up:

Foist\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Foisted; p. pr. & vb. n. Foisting.] [Cf. OD. vysten to fizzle, D. veesten, E. fizz, fitchet, bullfist.] To insert surreptitiously, wrongfully, or without warrant;

Phil is saying that the cue-bid is unwarranted with a prime 21, according to Mr Miriam Webster.

[FrancesHinden]

Initial double = what else?
Responsive double = a polite way of describing this is "aggressive"
Cue bid = what else?
4H = insane

Now this is partly a matter of methods, but personally I play that the double shows two places to play, one of which may or may not be hearts (and in one partnership now 2NT by doubler confirms four hearts).

Thus 4C by advancer now shows clubs + another suit. Doubler has game forced, so doubler can bid 4H if he has 4 of them and if responder had both minors they can play 5m.

Passing 4H = insane. How many hearts does he think the doubler has not to have bid them over 2S?

So a joint effort. Depressing because the wild responsive double could have got you to a slightly dodgy slam which might have made.

[helene_t]

The 4♥ bid is ok with me, I think South would not double with more than four hearts.

North has a difficult bid over 4♥ but pass is not an option. Maybe he should have bid 3N over the double. Now he must somehow try to show both minors. A non-forcing 4N would be nice but I'm afraid that would be RKC for hearts. Maybe 5N shows this hand.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

North had a plan, make a t/o followed by bidding NT,
why did he stop implementing the plan?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Fluffy]

double 2♠ with 3 quacks? what does 2NT mean?, lebenshol was made for this kind of hand.

Passing 4♥ is also very wrong, either you are on a 4-2 fit, or you have a fit in a minor wich probably makes slam.

[brianshark]

I like the t/o double, the cue and the 4♥ bid in context of the previous bidding. I dislike the responsive double and the final pass by north.

The final pass must carry by far the greatest proportion of the blame. While you should reasonably expect south to have a king or two extra, you shoulsd not expect more than 4 mediocre hearts. 4441 with concentration in the minors is approximately what I'd expect for south's bidding.

[helene_t]

P_Marlowe, on Apr 11 2008, 10:52 AM, said:

North had a plan, make a t/o followed by bidding NT,
why did he stop implementing the plan?

Very well put.

[kenrexford]

North should bid 3NT, IMO, but I understand 3♠.

South's 4♥ makes absolutely no sense unless South intended this as RKCB for clubs. If he meant that, beautiful bid! I find that VERY unlikely, and only "beautiful" if North "sould obviously know this," again dubious.

If I were South, I'd insist post-mortem that this was obviously RKCB for clubs, at least through the first beer. I'd then come clean.

The humorous thing, though, after reading all of the comments so far, is that I'm starting to think that 4♥ as RKCB for clubs and 4♠ as RKCB for diamonds actually might be the most useful meaning in this sequence.

[Halo]

Key thing for me is that if South had 4C as a natural club bid below game he should have welcomed the chance to use it.

[FrancesHinden]

P_Marlowe, on Apr 11 2008, 10:52 AM, said:

Hi,

North had a plan, make a t/o followed by bidding NT,
why did he stop implementing the plan?

With kind regards
Marlowe

Because opposite a hand with enough to make a responsive double, he probably expects to be making a slam.

(Which does make the pass of 4H even odder)

[inquiry]

First DOUBLE = what else? No charge
Second DOUBLE = a little too aggressive but is clearly not related to "blame"
CUE-BID = sets game force, maybe find a "right sided" 3NT if partner Qx in spades. I might have tried 3NT, but
=================

Up to here, bidding is FINE, if not a little aggressive.

4♥ = no, no, no. This is very wrong. This hand is about clubs. Bid 4♣. I think we can all agree that we should tell partner where we live.

Pass of 4♥ = no, no, no. Partner can not have five hearts on this auction, at least imho. But north is probably confused because if partner had a minor why in the #$%(@*%^@)$%$ didn't he bid it over 3♠.

There could be no silly 4♥ contract if South doesn't bid 4♥. And there could be no silly 4♥ contract if north was "thinking", or if north had simply bid 3NT over the responsive double. Both 4♥ and final PASS were bad. So i will split the blame, but not 50-50. I think south has to bear a bit more than half as I simply can not see bidding that heart suit "twice" (responsive dbl then bid 4♥).

[P_Marlowe]

FrancesHinden, on Apr 11 2008, 07:59 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Apr 11 2008, 10:52 AM, said:

Hi,

North had a plan, make a t/o followed by bidding NT,
why did he stop implementing the plan?

With kind regards
Marlowe

Because opposite a hand with enough to make a responsive double, he probably expects to be making a slam.

(Which does make the pass of 4H even odder)

...

It is probably a matter of philosophy, but I try to learn,
sometimes the hard way, to give up on dreams about slams
after opponents opened at the 1 level, and we dont talk
about a 3rd seat opener.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Apollo81]

The worst call by far was the pass of 4♥.

[jdonn]

My main thought reading the responses is a lot of people say

"south can't bid 4♥ on this hand!"
"north can't pass, south will only have four hearts!"

How are these consistent comments? Is south supposed to bid 4♥ to show four hearts or isn't he?

[han]

Completely agree with Frances's analysis, both 4H and the pass were very wrong.

I don't think these two comments contradict eachother Josh. South is not "supposed" to bid 4H with 4 but might do so with 4 good ones. Here the clubs are much better than the hearts and it seems criminal to bypass them.

So 4H only shows 4, but a different hand.

I suspect that south was worried that partner would not expect 4 hearts for the responsive double. An understandable sentiment but not a good bidding guide.

[helene_t]

North will usually have four hearts for his cuebid while South will usually not have four hearts for his responsive double. So if either player bids 4♥ it is a proposal to play in the 4-3 fit where North will have the four-bagger.

This sounds as if South's 4♥ bid was correct. But maybe he should have bid 4♣ on the basis of the theory that if North has four hearts they will be good enough to bid. I don't think so, I think North would raise 4♣ with a 4-card clubs, and only bid 4♥ if he has less than four clubs. And from South's perspective, 4♥ is the best place if North has 4-4 in the rounded suits.

So I think 4♥ is the best South can do given his silly responsive double.