[kfay]

Scoring: IMP

(3♦)-P-(3♠)-(P)
(4♠)-P-(5♦)-?

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You passed 3♠. Agree? Now what?

[FrancesHinden]

I doubled 3S.
I play this as 'penalties' / take-out of diamonds.

If I was certain that partner would think double was take-out of spades, I would have bid 4H over 3S.

[SchTsch]

I start doubling immediately.
Will stop doubling when pard bids something.
Not because I don't want to but because it is not allowed.

[mikeh]

FrancesHinden, on Apr 10 2008, 08:52 AM, said:

I doubled 3S.
I play this as 'penalties' / take-out of diamonds.

If I was certain that partner would think double was take-out of spades, I would have bid 4H over 3S.

I like that treatment: I can't recall the last time I had any urge to bid over 3♠here, so it doesn't come up often, but it is a good way to stop them fooling around, as they clearly have done here.

I also agree with the 4♥ fallback choice, and would have done that in my partnerships, because we lack the penalty meaning.

As it is, if I had to guess where our best spot was at this stage, I'd pick 6♠.

RHO has a bad hand... and probably not even enough to blast 5♦ immediately.

Having endplayed myself in the auction, I am going to bid 6♦.

This may be way, way too much.. but I have to catch up somehow.. and partner should get the joke... if rho really held spades, it is impossible to explain his 5♦ call. And I need to keep hearts in the picture.

I wouldn't be in this position in real life... altho I might not be any better off, either.

I can't bid 5♠.. that reveals the psyche but ignores hearts. I could double, but that shows a different hand.. it is primarily penalty, not takeout... so 6♦ it is.

[Fluffy]

WTF, we have a spade fit, so bid 5♠.

[FrancesHinden]

mikeh, on Apr 10 2008, 04:01 PM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Apr 10 2008, 08:52 AM, said:

I doubled 3S.
I play this as 'penalties' / take-out of diamonds.

If I was certain that partner would think double was take-out of spades, I would have bid 4H over 3S.

I like that treatment: I can't recall the last time I had any urge to bid over 3♠here, so it doesn't come up often, but it is a good way to stop them fooling around, as they clearly have done here.

I also agree with the 4♥ fallback choice, and would have done that in my partnerships, because we lack the penalty meaning.

This is a fairly new addition to our 'team' agreements (there is a set of common competitive bidding agreements that all members of our team agree to play which aids simplicity when we swap partnerships).

We got burnt twice in one month about this time last year on the similar auction (3m) P (4S) ? when fourth hand had a strong hand with spade length. Both times the 4S bid wasn't exactly a psyche (it had long spades) but it certainly wasn't bid with the expectation of making.

On one hand we were +150 from 4S against -1660 in the other room (super-ouch)
On the other it was a flat board in 5C-1, but if doubler's partner had known to pass the double of 4S it would have been +500.

[jdonn]

FrancesHinden, on Apr 10 2008, 08:52 AM, said:

I doubled 3S.
I play this as 'penalties' / take-out of diamonds.

Which? I don't see how it can be both. Do you double if you are 6133, or 3415, or neither? Or are you saying you double on both?

If I really had to take the reigns at this point in the auction I would bid 6♦.

[FrancesHinden]

Sorry, take-out of diamonds is the accurate description.

That implies that partner would usually pass the double, so in that sense it is a 'penalty' double.

[FrancesHinden]

I was reminded of this hand in the April BW, which discused the auction 2D P 2S and recommended playing double as take-out of diamonds.

It reminded me that one should also play 2D P 2S 4D and 3D P 3S 4D the same as 2D P P 4D and 3D P P 4D i.e. (for most people) both majors. So we could have overcalled 4D over 3S to show the major 2-suiter (if we had discussed it).

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

if I would remember my agreements, I would make
a penalty double instead of passing, ...
I have to check, if I rember my agreements correct,
of course it would be great to know, if they play 3S
as forcing.

Now I would go for a penalty double, I am pretty certain
3S was a psych, but partner does not know this.
I am not sure, that partner is able to see that 3S was a
psych bid, if I bid 5H, a bid which should imply hearts and
spades, because with only hearts I could have bid earlier,
and similar with clubs and hearts two suiter.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pclayton]

FrancesHinden, on Apr 10 2008, 05:52 AM, said:

I doubled 3S.
I play this as 'penalties' / take-out of diamonds.

If I was certain that partner would think double was take-out of spades, I would have bid 4H over 3S.

I play preempt - pass - new suit - double as penalties as well. At least with partners that I remember to discuss it with.

Not penalties as in QJT-6th and out, but a good hand. Maybe not as good as Kevin's.

[Apollo81]

3♠ was obviously a psych, so I will bid 6♦. Usually when they psych like this they are hoping they will get doubled.

[kfay]

pclayton, on Apr 23 2008, 12:22 PM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Apr 10 2008, 05:52 AM, said:

I doubled 3S.
I play this as 'penalties' / take-out of diamonds.

If I was certain that partner would think double was take-out of spades, I would have bid 4H over 3S.

I play preempt - pass - new suit - double as penalties as well. At least with partners that I remember to discuss it with.

Not penalties as in QJT-6th and out, but a good hand. Maybe not as good as Kevin's.

Woah woah woah! Who said this was my hand?

I was partner and held little more than QJx of diamonds. Everyone and their mother knew that 3♠ was a psyche at this point but my partner passed. I almost whipped out a penalty double.

It went down 3 and the other table was in 4♦X-2 at the other table... I'll try to remember my hand but our side has a hard time making game, let alone slam.

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something like that

[han]

If double is TO of diamonds then perhaps we should still bid 3D immediately with Kevin's hand.