[han]

Scoring: IMP

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This hand came up on bidding practice:

1C - 1H
2S - 3H
4D - ??

What is 4D?

What is your call?

EDIT: I changed the auction

[keylime]

<major edit since auction was changed - had answered to original post>

Since 3H to me here shows values and is forward-going, my first question is this:

Does 3D or 2NT show a bust hand? I would have liked to have bid 3D and then 4H to show this freak since I do have enough values to entertain game.

I would think 4D would be accepting hearts here and forward-going in this context.

This auction is much easier to cope than the original offering.

[jdonn]

4♦ = super strong heart raise, can also (along similar lines) be played as a cuebid for hearts. 4135 with no diamond stopper is extremely rare and can just raise hearts if it comes up. I guess I bid 5NT, with hearts agreed and responder never showing interest in another strain despite having opportunity to do so, this seems like GSF to me.

[the hog]

To me 4D can definitely not be "patterning out". Sorry Dwayne, but that makes no sense to me at all. Responder has limited his hand with the 1NT bid and has now shown a long H suit. Why on earth should opener "pattern out"? Surely a NT bid would make sense here rather than forcing responder to pick a suit when he has already advertised a long H suit.

4D for me is a cue agreeing H.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 4D is a cue, agreeing hearts,
#2 having bid 3H, I prefer 4H, I would say
you have to invite slam, 5H it is
5H sould ask about the quality of the
trump support

With kind regards
Marlowe

[FrancesHinden]

4D agrees hearts.
I don't think it is a control-showing cuebid, as it's the only way he has to agree hearts below game, with spades, clubs and NT all natural here.

If he had, say,

AKQx
AK
xx
AKQxx

he'd have opened 2C, but that shape with an honour or two fewer and it's a 4D call.

[han]

OK, so everybody agrees that 4D is a slam try in hearts. Do you all bid 5NT?

[pclayton]

Hannie, on Aug 26 2007, 09:44 AM, said:

OK, so everybody agrees that 4D is a slam try in hearts. Do you all bid 5NT?

I agree that 4♦ is a good heart raise, but previous threads have convinced me that it does not promise a diamond control. I can picture hands that make 7, but even if pard has the ♥AK, communications on this hand rate to be a problem. I think with a very typical: AQxx, AK, xx, AKxxx we'll have plenty of work to do in 6, much less 7.

I think I'd just settle for 6♥ at this point.

[Fluffy]

I ain't so sure what 4♦ is, but my bid is 7♦

[jdonn]

pclayton, on Aug 26 2007, 01:08 PM, said:

Hannie, on Aug 26 2007, 09:44 AM, said:

OK, so everybody agrees that 4D is a slam try in hearts. Do you all bid 5NT?

I agree that 4♦ is a good heart raise, but previous threads have convinced me that it does not promise a diamond control. I can picture hands that make 7, but even if pard has the ♥AK, communications on this hand rate to be a problem. I think with a very typical: AQxx, AK, xx, AKxxx we'll have plenty of work to do in 6, much less 7.

I think I'd just settle for 6♥ at this point.

That is not very typical, it's a minimum or maybe not even good enough. 4♦ is not automatic with heart support, it should really be a hand that fears missing slam if it just bids 4♥. I guess that hand would bid it with the great controls, but I really think more typical is those highcards but 4315.

And even with your example, the queen could be in clubs instead, or the club king could be in diamonds (ok that's a 2NT opener), or he could be 4216 Seems a lot easier to find hands (given AK of hearts) that make 7 than ones that don't.

By the way, how is having 12 top tricks "plenty of work to do in 6"?

[mike777]

Put me down for 4d promising a D control, never xx.
edit:

I will try 5D now. May miss the grand.

[skjaeran]

mike777, on Aug 26 2007, 11:00 PM, said:

I assume 3H was 100% natural and 100% game forcing.

Isn't 2♠ GF to you?
It is to me, so there can't be any doubt about 3♥ being forcing or not.

[keylime]

That's part of the rationale of my question about what the meaning of 3D in this auction; it might solve some ambiguous overtones.

[whereagles]

4♦ = I dunno, but my guess is natural, with a very strong hand.

I'll bid 6♦ now. If pard had that heart raise, he can now switch to 6♥.