[TimG]

Hi,

It's been a while since I was regularly watching vugraph shows, so apologies if this is an old one. I notice that there is no vugraph scheduled for the Spingold. Is this an oddity, or are ACBL's main events no longer broadcast?

Tim

[hrothgar]

TimG, on Jul 14 2007, 08:25 PM, said:

Hi,

It's been a while since I was regularly watching vugraph shows, so apologies if this is an old one. I notice that there is no vugraph scheduled for the Spingold. Is this an oddity, or are ACBL's main events no longer broadcast?

Tim

Hi Tim

I'm sure that Roland or Jan can provide an official answer, however, here are a couple pieces of background information.

1. Major ACBL like the Spingold always seem to be covered on Vugraph. I can't recall the last time that one of the "big three" events didn't get broadcast over BBO.

2. For whatever reason, the ACBL isn't particular pro-active making formal arrangements. Some organizations like to schedule all of the details for their Vugraph's months in advance (Contracts for connectivity, arranging for operators, etc). The ACBL seems to prefer to wait until closer to the event in question.

I feel fairly confident that the Spingold will be broadcast, however, I have no idea what round coverage will start...

[Walddk]

Sure we are going to broadcast. Let me show you what Rick Beye, the ACBL chief TD, sent me the other day:

"We would like to start broadcasts (Spingold and Wagar) on Thursday (the 26th), to continue through Sunday. I can not tell you what events we will do Thursday-Saturday until I see the entry into the two events. So, I won't have the event information until Monday afternoon, 7/23."

Consequently, we are not going to list anything until I have that specific information, but broadcast we will.

Tournament schedule to be found at ...

http://web2.acbl.org/documentlibrary/nabc/...chedule2007.pdf

Roland

[Walddk]

Our schedule for the Spingold is now up on our vugraph web page

http://online.bridgebase.com/vugraph/sched...?order_by=event

However, as I did not receive additional info from ACBL since the last e-mail on July 12, the schedule can only be described as provisional. There are instances where the two teams agree to start the evening session 30 or 60 minutes later, Rick Beye wrote.

In my opinion it would be a good idea to let the players play and let the organisers organise. I did write that after Rick's last e-mail, but I am not surprised that my opinion doesn't count.

We had a similar problem in England (the players decided when to resume). I told Max Bavin about the problems that would create, and since then the English have been very cooperative. They actually stick to a fixed time schedule now!

Rain retrieved the Spingold schedule from last year, so I made my guesses (timewise) after I had a look at that. Unless the organisers do something at the last minute, there won't be broadcasts from the rounds of 64 (Tuesday) and 32 (Wednesday).

We had them both a year ago.

Given the uncertainty regarding the time schedule, I have decided not to assign commentators in advance. It would not be fair on them if they are to stand by for 30 or 60 minutes.

It's virtually impossible to get any accurate information from ACBL, but I am used to that by now. I wish they would be more interested in presenting live internet vugraph, but I am not holding my breath.

Reliable sources tell me that they do indeed care. If that is so, it's a pity that it doesn't show.

Roland

[Walddk]

I have been through our vugraph archives, and last year we were broadcasting all of the Spingold R32 and R16. None of that will happen this time. When we came to the quarter-finals (scheduled to be shown on Thursday) one of the four quarters was dedicated to the women's finals (the 3rd of the Wagar Knockout Teams).

That match was a one-sided affair, so back we were to the Spingold the segment after.

As you can imagine, I have received loads of private chat messages and e-mails over the last two weeks. All of these had "when and why" in them. A couple of specific e-mails today from Rosede A. Olson of USA addressed the issue of the Wagar.

Ms Olson has asked me show them with this comment:

"Please post my e-mails re the broadcasting of the women's events. Maybe it will spark a discussion that might get the ACBL to the point that it would believe that showing those events was a more financially sound move than not."

Her first e-mail to the ACBL with a copy to me was this:

"I do wish you would broadcast at least the semi-finals and the finals of the women's teams events -- such as the Wagar Women's Teams at the ACBL Summer Nationals, as well as the open teams. I know you have to be asked by the sponsor of the event and have enough operators -- but I wish you would mention it to the ACBL, as I am doing with this e-mail. I know there are a lot of people who would be interested in viewing the event."

Ms Olson got this back from the ACBL:

"Hi Rosede,

There is no charge for you to watch the broadcast. Unfortunately there is a major cost for the sponsor to provide the coverage and the funds are not currently available for additional events.

Regards,
Butch Campbell
Manager - Tournament Department
American Contract Bridge League"

...

That reply was not satisfactory for Ms Olson, so she sent another e-mail to Memphis:

"As an addition, when you look at the next couple of months of the vugraph schedule on Bridge Base (Norwegian Bridge Festival, Finnish Cup, Governor's Cup from Indonesia, 10th European University Championship, and tournaments from India, Crete, Netherlands (3 times), England, New Zealand and Bulgaria), it just seems so sad that the country that has the most bridge players in the world cannot manage to sponsor the vugraph showing of six specific events over the course of a year.

It also seems like such good publicity that I would think it would increase the playing of bridge in the U.S., and thereby bring more money into the coffers."

....

So here we are at this point. Feel free to join the debate if you care.

Roland

[DenisO]

As Roland points out we had coverage of the rounds of 64 and 32 last year - you can see the details on Nikos's site here :
http://www.sarantako.../2006-spin.html

But last year in the equivalent thread to this, Roland had the Vugraph schedule as early as June and when the event happened we were all full of praise for the ACBL and the best Vugraph coverage they had ever provided.

I just don't understand why things have gone backwards - presumably it's much the same team (headed by Rick Beye) who are still in charge.

Denis

[TimG]

DenisO, on Jul 24 2007, 04:01 PM, said:

As Roland points out we had coverage of the rounds of 64 and 32 last year - you can see the details on Nikos's site here :
http://www.sarantako.../2006-spin.html

But last year in the equivalent thread to this, Roland had the Vugraph schedule as early as June and when the event happened we were all full of praise for the ACBL and the best Vugraph coverage they had ever provided.

I just don't understand why things have gone backwards - presumably it's much the same team (headed by Rick Beye) who are still in charge.

Denis

I think the ACBL lacks long-term vision. If it doesn't immediately impact the bottom line in a positive way, they are unlikely to do it.

When I was involved in ACBL District* politics, there was a strong sentiment amongst board members that the Newcomer Program should pay for itself. They did not like reduced card fees for newcomers; they did not like special hospitality for newcomers; they did not want to pay for lecture series for newcomers if the funds did not come from newcomer fees.

I think the ACBL is the same way -- if there is not an immediate financial benefit, they're likely to dismiss the idea.

I wonder how or if vugraph operators are compensated in ACBL events. Apparently there is some "major cost" associated with a broadcast. The only things I can think of are internet access, computer equipment and vugraph operators. Are there others?

The ACBL's convention staff ought to be able to negotiate to include some wireless internet access with the convention package. A few older notebooks that are sufficient for vugraph operators shouldn't cost that much (if anything). That leaves the operators. I can understand not wanting to be an operator for free, especially when it means giving up bridge playing time. Does anyone know what kind of compensation the ACBL provides?

* The ACBL is split up into 25 Districts that are responsible for running Regional tournaments.

[Walddk]

Walddk, on Jul 14 2007, 09:26 PM, said:

....."So, I won't have the event information until Monday afternoon, 7/23."

As mentioned in my initial post, this is what I got from Rick Beye on 11 July. 24 hours after "Monday afternoon, 7/23" I haven't received any such information, and that is the most disappointing aspect from my point of view. Yesterday I even took the time to ask a couple of players onsite (they were online briefly) to remind Rick of his promise.

Denis rightly points out that we are getting a poorer service no matter what happens from here. Perhaps we are back to the "hotel charges a fortune" issue. I have no idea.

Since I am known to be an organised person, guessing is not my kind of game. When I am presented with facts, i.e. accurate information, I am ready to act. Apologies in advance if the schedule shown on our web page is inaccurate.

Roland

[Walddk]

A BBO member sent me this a few minutes ago:

"I was on site in Nashville Saturday and Sunday, and was about to hop on BBO in my room when I saw that the hotel charges $12/day for internet for guests. Wow. I don't know if this means anything as far as what the ACBL would have to pay for vugraph internet access."

[hrothgar]

I'm going to offer one possible explanation. This is all pure speculation on my part, so if anyone has better information I'd appreciate it.

I believe that the ACBL may distribute responsibility for its Nationals more-so than many other bridge federations. The United States is a large country. The ACBL makes extensive use of local volunteers to staff and run its nationals. As a result, the folks who are currently responsible for running the summer Nationals in Nashville aren't necessarily the ones who will be actively involved in administering the Fall Nationals in San Francisco.

In contrast, I would imagine that smaller countries are able to centralize administration more effectively. The folks who are running things get a lot more experience and are better able to build effective, repeatable processes.

(I also occasionally wonder whether there are age issues involved)

[Walddk]

hrothgar, on Jul 25 2007, 02:05 AM, said:

I'm going to offer one possible explanation.  This is all pure speculation on my part, so if anyone has better information I'd appreciate it.

I believe that the ACBL may distribute responsibility for its Nationals more-so than many other bridge federations.  The United States is a large country.  The ACBL makes extensive use of local volunteers to staff and run its nationals.  As a result, the folks who are currently responsible for running the summer Nationals in Nashville aren't necessarily the ones who will be actively involved in administering the Fall Nationals in San Francisco. 

In contrast, I would imagine that smaller countries are able to centralize administration more effectively.  The folks who are running things get a lot more experience and are better able to build effective, repeatable processes.

(I also occasionally wonder whether there are age issues involved)

I think this is a poor excuse if it is a valid one. Let me take Norway, one of the smaller countries, as an example. The country is divided into 25 districts (kretser), and they are quite capable of handling vugraph presentations everywhere. Different people are in charge, and that does not cause a problem.

Just look at the Norwegian Bridge Festival starting Friday. Nine days on the trot, multiple events, outstanding result service. Perfect. Harald Skjæran (skaeran) can no doubt shed more light on how this is undertaken.

Denmark is even smaller, 11 districts, and also there it is possible to go ahead without further ado. In those countries they read the technical manual, have a few hours of practice, and off they are.

This is not brain surgery. It's actually quite simple if you have talented organisers.

There is one big difference, however. I think the ACBL books hotels years in advance and forgets about negotiating an internet deal when they do. In other countries it's part of the package because it's taken care of well in advance.

Internet coverage has high priority in Norway, Poland, Denmark, England, Netherlands, China, etc. I am far from convinced that this is the case as far as the ACBL is concerned.

Roland

[TimG]

hrothgar, on Jul 24 2007, 07:05 PM, said:

I believe that the ACBL may distribute responsibility for its Nationals more-so than many other bridge federations. The United States is a large country. The ACBL makes extensive use of local volunteers to staff and run its nationals. As a result, the folks who are currently responsible for running the summer Nationals in Nashville aren't necessarily the ones who will be actively involved in administering the Fall Nationals in San Francisco.

That is true. The partnership desk, the registration desk, all the hospitality arrangements, restaurant guides, etc. are done by local volunteers (well, they often get free plays on days that they work). In fact, a District will end up spending over $100K for the privilege of hosting a NABC.

But, none of this means that the instructions to NABC Chairmen regarding what hospitality, partnership, etc volunteers are needed, couldn't include vugraph operators.

[TimG]

Walddk, on Jul 24 2007, 06:12 PM, said:

A BBO member sent me this a few minutes ago:

"I was on site in Nashville Saturday and Sunday, and was about to hop on BBO in my room when I saw that the hotel charges $12/day for internet for guests. Wow. I don't know if this means anything as far as what the ACBL would have to pay for vugraph internet access."

The ACBL has at least one internet connection on site -- they post results and Bulletins daily.

[JanM]

The hotel internet is indeed $12.95 per day, and is absurdly unreliable in addition. The convention center (where the events are being played) has $10 per day internet, but only on the third floor. On the other floors, internet is $50 a day, which sounds like a lot unless you're lucky (as I was) and happen to be told by the very helpful woman in the convention center business office that if you buy 3 days of the service that gets you "all of the event." I bought 3 days last Thursday and have been online reliably in the convention center since then, for what will eventually be an average cost of about the same as the hotel's internet (it works with my iPhone too ). I'll probably be using my account for one Vugraph table. The ACBL also has some phone line which they may use for some of the Vugraph (I don't have reliable information about the cost of that, but I know that in the past it has been more than $100/day).
To answer the question about operators, I think that ACBL's problem finding enough operators is more because there are a lot of bridge events to play in during the times they want to show Vugraph, than because there isn't much compensation (we usually get a few free plays for operating). ACBL does want to provide Vugraph coverage, but NABCs are huge and complex and Rick Beye has a lot of things other than Vugraph to worry about. And of course the hotel and convention center contracts were probably signed years ago when wireless internet wasn't the same as it is now.
The good news from Nashville is that Meredith Beck, Catalina, whose last name I've forgotten but who did the Spingold last year, and I are available all 4 days (Thursday-Sunday) for which Vugraph is planned, and BBO's own Shirley Ybarra, who generously volunteered to operate during the Senior Trials earlier this month and is therefore now an expert, has volunteered to operate on Friday and Saturday. If we are able to find one more person for Thursday (there are some local volunteers who are interested but not sure of their time schedules) we'll have the Wagar finals and one match from the Spingold Round of 16 on Thursday, one or two Round of 8 matches on Friday, both Spingold Semi-final matches on Saturday and all of the Spingold Finals on Sunday.
I did my part for the Wagar audience by losing to Sabine and Danielle yesterday so they may be playing in the finals
As for the schedule, the program still shows the afternoon at 1:00 and the evening at 7:30, but with screens that's *very* unlikely - I'll bet all the money I made on my bet that the Wagar would have so few teams it would end on Thursday that the starting times will be 1:00 and 8:00. See you all then!

[DenisO]

That is very good news Jan - so if the internet conection is reasonable we should get an excellent broadcast with that team of operators Thanks for your great committment to Vugraph.

Denis

[DenisO]

Can someone please give N/S and E/W in Open room for the 4th segment of R16 (Cayne v Mahaffey) as the Vugraph archive is missing the info?

Thanks
Denis

[DenisO]

DenisO, on Jul 27 2007, 07:48 AM, said:

Can someone please give N/S and E/W in Open room for the 4th segment of R16 (Cayne v Mahaffey) as the Vugraph archive is missing the info?

Thanks
Denis

Got this info now . It will be included in the files on Nikos's site.