[navit]

1 S DOUBLE 2S ?
?

HOW DO I BID IF I HAVE 5H BUT LOW POINTS . WHEN do i pass or bid?

[skjaeran]

The hcp strenght needed depends upon your distribution.
If you're balanced (some 5332), you'll probably need something like 8 hcp to bid 3♥. If you're more distributional, you'll need less. How much less you'll have to evaluate - good intermediates in a 4- or 5-card side suit is fine.

[mikeh]

navit, on Apr 16 2007, 05:27 AM, said:

1  S            DOUBLE              2S      ?
?

HOW DO I BID IF I HAVE 5H BUT LOW POINTS . WHEN do i pass or bid?

One solution to the problem is to adopt the use of 2N by 4th seat as a lebensohl bid. After 1 major - double - 2 major (a raise, not the other major), the chances that you will have a natural 2N bid (and want to make it) are low.. the opps have an 8+ card fit already and partner is usually short in that suit.

So many experts use 2N by the advancer as a way of bidding to show a weak hand with a long suit: the desire to compete to the 3-level without any game interest.

Doubler is supposed to bid 3♣ and advancer will either pass, with long ♣s, or bid his suit.

This allows [1♠] x [2♠] 3♥, as an example, to be invitational to game. With a hand such as xxx KJxxx Qxx Jx, where 3♥ is probably a good spot compared to selling out to 2♠, we can bid 2N then 3♥. With xxx KJxxx Axx Qx, we can bid 3♥ to invite game.

[kenberg]

Lacking any clear agreement, it's not crazy (well, that's my opinion) to pass. It's likely but not certain that if your left hand opponent passes then, since you have little and your opponents don't have all that much, leaving partner with extras, he will double again. Then you bid 3H, and he will leave it be. This will not always work but often it does.

How about if your lho bids 3S, or some other game try over your pass? Then it depends. If you want partner to contest 3S then you should have bid 3H. If you don't want partner bidding over 3S, then passing the 2S is the way to accomplish this.

No doubt there are conventional ways to handle this situation, but I find passing to be a surprisingly useful call when I don't have anything.

[Double !]

IMO, there is an important concept that needs to be considered when approaching this question.
Assuming that partner has something close to the basic template hand/ distribution for an X of 1S (e.g.: 1,4,4,4 distro and a minimum opener), if you bid a suit at this point, you are technically supporting partner who theoretically bid hearts-diamonds-&clubs when making a takeout double. If you bid 3 hearts, you are raising partner's presumedly 4-card suit. The issue then becomes how to distinguish between weak raises and raises holding some decent values. One possible method is to play good-bad 2NT (or bad-good2NT) because there is a good chance that the opps can outbid you in spades. But, IMO, the concept that you are supporting partner seems like something to keep in mind.

dhl

[mike777]

Well good/bad 2nt by a responder to an overcall or takeout x by partner is a bit advanced for a convention in this section me thinks.

[the hog]

mike777, on Apr 17 2007, 03:24 AM, said:

Well good/bad 2nt by a responder to an overcall or takeout x by partner is a bit advanced for a convention in this section me thinks.

This is not a Good/Bad situation. The 2NT bid here would be Lebensohl, equivalent to the following auction: (2S) X (P) 2NT.

I don't think Lebensohl is too advanced for the B/I forum.

[Apollo81]

I don't know any B/I players who play Lebensohl in any situation other than 1NT-(2x)

[jdonn]

What is the point of this disagreement, don't good/bad and Lebensohl mean the same thing here? They both say 2NT shows a hand that wants to compete in a suit but isn't good enough to invite game.

Agree that Leb is too advanced for this forum. And it's not standard on these auctions though lots of people do play it. Another common meaning is to show 2 places to play, which leaves a responsive double for more balanced type hands. This is most convenient when you are say 3343 with decent values, since it lets you double without worrying that partner will play you for lots of shape.

[the hog]

"What is the point of this disagreement, don't good/bad and Lebensohl mean the same thing here?"

As this is the BIL you may as well get the terminology correct so people know what you are talking about. Secondly I totally disagree that Leb is too complicated for the BIL. You are selling people short. To play Leb in these auctions is a natural extension of playing it over intervention over a NT, and that is taught to beginners here.