[kgr]

Someone told me that Muiderberg can not include a 3-card in the Other Major.
If you play "Muiderberg" (Weak with 5-card M and 4+m) and you open 2♥ then you can not have a 3-card in ♠. If you would open 2♥ with a 3-card ♠ (Or 2♠ with a 3-card ♥) then you are not allowed to call this Muiderberg.
Is that true?

[whereagles]

Nonsense. You can call whatever you want to whatever you like.

[Gerben42]

2♥ as Muiderberg shows about 5 - 10 HCP, exactly 5 ♥ and 4+ of a minor. It can have 3♠, no problem, but you should not have 5332 (some are sneaky and try that) or four ♠.

So the answer is yes you can have 3 ♠. However having 3♠ is a minus as with most preempts because partner might have 5 and you might belong in ♠ and never find out.

[david_c]

whereagles, on Jul 26 2005, 06:35 PM, said:

You can call whatever you want to whatever you like.

Disagree. If you choose to explain your bid by giving the name of the convention, then your agreement has to be the same as what the generally accepted definition of that convention is. Otherwise the opponents have been misled.

So, if everyone else in the world played that "Muiderberg" denied 3 cards in the other major, then an agreement to allow 3 cards in the other major would have to be properly explained to the opponents, and not doing so would be MI.

But no, Muiderberg does not deny 3 cards in the other major. Having said that, you have to realise that various two-suited bids like this are becoming increasingly popular, and a lot of them seem to get given the name "Muiderberg" even though the definitions vary. So it's probably better not to use the name at all.

[han]

In my first duplicate game ever (almost exactly 5 years ago) I opened Muiderberg with a 6-card major, I don't remember why. The opponents called the director after the hand and the director ruled that my bid was illegal; the score was adjusted. Apperently there are strange rules in the Netherlands about the Muiderberg convention. If you alert your bid as Muiderberg, then not only should you have the agreement that you are 5-4+ (which is logical, otherwise you are misinforming the opponents), apparently you are also not allowed to use judgement and open with 6, or even make a mistake.

Shortly afterwards I moved to the US, and I haven't played very much bridge in Holland since then. Does anybody here know whether the director was correct? If so, why is there such a strange rule for this convention?

As an aside: Is this law similar to the ACBL law that you are not allowed to psych a strong 2C or 1C bid? What do people think about this law?

[keylime]

I can understand why they bar psychics of conventional openings - it's to keep the membership coming back.

Not that I totally agree with it...

[helene_t]

Hannie, on Jul 27 2005, 07:47 AM, said:

Apperently there are strange rules in the Netherlands about the Muiderberg convention. If you alert your bid as Muiderberg, then not only should you have the agreement that you are 5-4+ (which is logical, otherwise you are misinforming the opponents), apparently you are also not allowed to use judgement and open with 6, or even make a mistake.

This is true in practice, but the rules are not "strange", just a little paranoid.

Indeed, you only have to disclose your agreements, and you are allowed to bid whatever you want. However, there is a concept of chreme-coloured conventions, saying that whenever such a convention is abused, the TD must assume wrong explanation unless proved otherwise. So if you open Muiderberg on 765432-2-2-KQJxx you may get away with it, but with Q65432-2-32-AKT2 probably not unless you can prove that it had never occured nor been discussed in this partnership.

I'm not sure why this is so but presumably, if you abuse some standard call (say you open 1NT with a singleton) it could be a beginner's mistake. If you abuse a non-standard convention, especially a disruptive convention, it is assumed that you knew what you were doing since you wouldn't put such a convention on your CC if you didn't know the convention.

FWIW, I disagree with this practice. I think TDs have to trust that the explanation is correct. What I see a lot of times is partnerships taking insurance by calling their two-level openings something else, defined as 5+ in the major no further information. Then partner knows that it is 99% certain to be a diciplined Muiderberg and will also use that information, but opps don't have that information. I can't blame them since the rules force them to take this insurance, but as an opp I would rather have them say "Muiderberg", even if it may occasionaly be a hand with which the TD wouldn't have opened Muiderberg.

Topic: Feel free to open Muiderberg with a 3-card OM. Even a 4-card OM (5404), unless you specifically alert it as "diciplined Muiderberg".

[guggie]

About the 3card OM, it is no problem, but some partnership explicitly have agreed they wont do it (you should tell this too to the opponents)
4c other major is not allowed, furthermore I think it is bad judgement to do so.
6c in the bid major is explicitly not allowed. If in yr partnership the occasional 6card is agreed upon, you cannot name it a Muiderberg.

Variations on the convention have been christened variations on the name Muiderberg (in Dutch Muiderberg is a village near the small city of Muiden, the name means the mountain of Muiden), so one of the variations is called Muiderdal (The valley of Muiden)..
"Muiderbergish" also is known

[helene_t]

"Muiderdal" .... I'll add this to my collection. Muiderbergh, Myderburg, Puinerberg, Muiderzand, Modderheuvel, Muider-echt .... probably a lot of other that I forgot. Basically it means "in principle we play Muiderberg but don't take it too serious".

[han]

Modderheuvel, LOL!

(mudhill)

[Free]

The Muiderberg convention is described as follows: "6-11HCP, 5M and 4+m". This means exactly a 5 card M, no less than 6HCP, and says NOTHING about the other Major. So yes, you can still have a 3 card in the other Major.

However, it's recommended not to do it with 5♠'s and 3♥'s since you might miss the 2♥ contract in a 5-3 fit and instead play in an inferior 2♠ or 3m contract. With 5♥'s and 3♠'s it's less dangerous, but still not the best way to bid imo. It depends on the hand...