[cencio]

---

[mw64ahw]

Assuming you're playing 5-card Majors 2/1 GF or GI it's a clear 2♣ bid.
What you do after that depends on your continuations, but I'm not discounting playing in a Spade slam rather than a Club one.

[paulg]

mw64ahw, on 2026-April-12, 04:26, said:

Assuming you're playing 5-card Majors 2/1 GF or GI it's a clear 2♣ bid.
What you do after that depends on your continuations, but I'm not discounting playing in a Spade slam rather than a Club one.

I agree it is a clear 2♣ overcall and continuations will depend on what happens next. A spade slam is unlikely in my view.

[pescetom]

 mw64ahw, on 2026-April-12, 04:26, said:

Assuming you're playing 5-card Majors 2/1 GF or GI it's a clear 2♣ bid.
What you do after that depends on your continuations, but I'm not discounting playing in a Spade slam rather than a Club one.

I suspect you misread the diagram and thought you were responding.

For me a 2♣ overcall.

[mw64ahw]

pescetom, on 2026-April-12, 05:40, said:

I suspect you misread the diagram and thought you were responding.

For me a 2♣ overcall.

Yep absent the ?, but 2♣ as an overall happy to rebid.

[jillybean]

I think many will believe South must start with a X and then bid clubs.
This is a direct 2♣ overcall for me, partner will cooperate or I will rebid clubs.

I am not ready to call this 8 card suit "trump"

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

It is a tactical decision.
You can start with X followed by bidding clubs, or bid 2C and repeat clubs.
I would go with 2C, the followup seq. appear to be simpler.
The adv. of X is, that in case p makes a pos. move and you can blast 5C.

In the end this is a hand, that will force you at one point to make a decision,
you can try to gather information on how high you are willing to go.

Scoring matters.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pescetom]

P_Marlowe, on 2026-April-12, 10:41, said:

It is a tactical decision.
You can start with X followed by bidding clubs, or bid 2C and repeat clubs.
I would go with 2C, the followup seq. appear to be simpler.
The adv. of X is, that in case p makes a pos. move and you can blast 5C.

In the end this is a hand, that will force you at one point to make a decision,
you can try to gather information on how high you are willing to go.

Scoring matters.

Now that the pendulum has swung to an overcall with up to 18 HCP the question becomes what X and then suit should promise (and even whether it should remain NF when below game).
Holding a long major, I tend to reserve the X and then suit for a hand rich in values but unpromising for slam.
Holding a long minor I tend towards an overcall, it's not obvious to me on which hands X then suit will likely be a winner.

[mikeh]

Now that the pendulum has swung made me laugh. I’m not sure when this phenomenon is thought to have happened but some leading theorists (anyone remember the late, great Eric Kokish?) advocated for virtually unlimited overcall more than 30 years ago

To me, the key to deciding double or (edit poor autocomplete) overcall depends more on shape than hcp. In particular I strain to avoid a takeout double of a major when I can’t stand partner bidding to a high level in the other major

If I were to double, I have to anticipate plausible sequences. How about (1S) x (3S) 4H?

Do I really want to bid 5C here? I think not.

I’ve overcalled, with nothing bad happening, on far stronger hands than an 18 count. For me double then suit suggests a good 17 with a good suit and the ability to handle most and preferably all likely continuations around the table.

[cencio]

cencio, on 2026-April-12, 03:15, said:

---

Looking in the traveller the majority of players bid double

[thepossum]

To me with only 14 points 2 clubs seems safe - it would be sad to miss a slam

[P_Marlowe]

cencio, on 2026-April-13, 00:53, said:

Looking in the traveller the majority of players bid double

The question is how do you asses the average strength of the players on the traveller compared
with the average strength of the players in this thread.
But MikeH also gave a good example / and provided you with a question you should ask yourself,
when deciding which path to choose: How do you feel if you need to show your suit at the 5 level.
Are you willing to do it? In general, if you are not willing to show your side at any level, start
with the suit.

[cencio]

P_Marlowe, on 2026-April-13, 01:36, said:

The question is how do you asses the average strength of the players on the traveller compared
with the average strength of the players in this thread.
But MikeH also gave a good example / and provided you with a question you should ask yourself,
when deciding which path to choose: How do you feel if you need to show your suit at the 5 level.
Are you willing to do it? In general, if you are not willing to show your side at any level, start
with the suit.

Thanksfor your explanations. The are very helpful.

[mw64ahw]

cencio, on 2026-April-13, 00:53, said:

Looking in the traveller the majority of players bid double

For me X then a suit shows ~18+
After a 2♣ overcall I'll be happy to bid up to 5♣ with 9 playing tricks at this vulnerability if I think the opponents are making their contract.

[Cyberyeti]

cencio, on 2026-April-13, 00:53, said:

Looking in the traveller the majority of players bid double

And defended 1♠x ?

[cencio]

https://webutil.brid...4402-R1-B10-I26

[Cyberyeti]

OK, I would expect S to overcall 2♣, W to raise to 2♠, then a few things could happen, but I'd expect eventually S to find out N has an ace and the ♣Q/♠K and bid 6♣

EW should save, 6M is not going for more than 1100 and they might move to 6N/7♣ which don't make.

[mikeh]

cencio, on 2026-April-13, 00:53, said:

Looking in the traveller the majority of players bid double

Maybe in the blue Ribbon Pairs on day three I might look to see what other pairs did. In most events the only reason I look is for amusement. It’s like ‘going with the field’, which far too many players think is the way to play bridge. I’d never say ‘go against the field’ but that’s for the same reason that I never say ‘go with the field’. The field is almost always made up of bad players to a far greater extent than it is of good players.

Want to learn from how others bid? Identify the strongest three or four pairs in fields in which you play and ask them, after the session, why they did what they did.

Btw, please do not do what far too many players do…approach a stronger player, seek advice, and then argue unless they agreed with what you’d done.

You will learn far more than just looking at what a collection of primarily mediocre players did.

[pescetom]

mikeh, on 2026-April-12, 18:26, said:

Now that the pendulum has swung made me laugh. I’m not sure when this phenomenon is thought to have happened but some leading theorists (anyone remember the late, great Eric Kokish?) advocated for virtually unlimited overcall more than 30 years ago

Glad it made you laugh, laughing is good for your health.
But as a historian of Bridge you probably recognise that things trickle down very slowly, or at least did until the last decade.
There are still beginners being taught a maximum of 16 or even 15 based on course material that has never been updated in this respect.
Google AI on my phone said a maximum of 15, although that jumped to 17 when I tried it on the PC just now
Even Larry Cohen who was a pioneer of modern bidding and has taught it to the millions caps things at a max of 17 in his articles.