[mike777]

Partner opens a strong NT

How do you make slam try with this:


KQ9642....Q7....K82....AT

[DavidKok]

Standard systems are terrible at slam tries. The standard answer is to bid 2♥ (transfer) then 4♠. This shows moderate slam interest with 6(+) spades and no autosplinter. By contrast, immediately bidding some transfer at the 4-level is used to sign off in game without inviting partner to share their opinion.

Personally I think these routes make suboptimal use of the bidding space, and I would like to have cheaper slam tries. One example of a method that does this is transfer extensions. However, others exist as well.

[mw64ahw]

I'd start cue-bidding after the 2-level transfer completion to signal the mild slam try and identify whether we have 2 quick losers.

Mildly stronger hands can bid 4♠ after transfer completion to ask opener to show KCs/controls or show KCs/controls directly above 4♠.

Baze may also be a way to go.

[AL78]

DavidKok, on 2025-October-13, 07:22, said:

Standard systems are terrible at slam tries. The standard answer is to bid 2♥ (transfer) then 4♠. This shows moderate slam interest with 6(+) spades and no autosplinter. By contrast, immediately bidding some transfer at the 4-level is used to sign off in game without inviting partner to share their opinion.

Personally I think these routes make suboptimal use of the bidding space, and I would like to have cheaper slam tries. One example of a method that does this is transfer extensions. However, others exist as well.

Isn't 1NT - 3M a standard way of showing slam interest in a major?

[mike777]

mw64ahw, on 2025-October-13, 07:31, said:

I'd start cue-bidding after the 2-level transfer completion to signal the mild slam try and identify whether we have 2 quick losers.




Mildly stronger hands can bid 4♠ after transfer completion to ask opener to show KCs/controls or responder can show KCs/controls directly above 4♠

Unfortunately, that shows a second suit for me, 5-4. I cannot do both.

[mike777]

AL78, on 2025-October-13, 07:38, said:

Isn't 1NT - 3M a standard way of showing slam interest in a major?

Unfortunately, that is a very useful auction that shows both minors, stiff in bid major and 3 in other major, ...it comes up.

[mike777]

DavidKok, on 2025-October-13, 07:22, said:

Standard systems are terrible at slam tries. The standard answer is to bid 2♥ (transfer) then 4♠. This shows moderate slam interest with 6(+) spades and no autosplinter. By contrast, immediately bidding some transfer at the 4-level is used to sign off in game without inviting partner to share their opinion.

Personally I think these routes make suboptimal use of the bidding space, and I would like to have cheaper slam tries. One example of a method that does this is transfer extensions. However, others exist as well.

Thanks, that is about all I have now, tfr and autosplinter or rebid 4 if balanced, not helpful on this one. The magic bid would have been to cuebid my Ace of clubs, with 4C, however currently that would be shortness.

This was a practice deal on the daily challenge in Cuebids. About half the field got to slam. Many auctions were uninspired guesses and the rest seem to use some perhaps alertable stuff, but did not recognize it..

[mw64ahw]

mike777, on 2025-October-13, 07:59, said:

Unfortunately, that shows a second suit for me, 5-4. I cannot do both.

Can't you do that at the 3-level?

Over 2N I use transfer then 4M to show the mild slam try and show KCs/controls directly otherwise. Texas transfers are a sign-off.

[mw64ahw]

mike777, on 2025-October-13, 08:05, said:

Thanks, that is about all I have now, tfr and autosplinter or rebid 4 if balanced, not helpful on this one. The magic bid would have been to cuebid my Ace of clubs, with 4C, however currently that would be shortness.

This was a practice deal on the daily challenge in Cuebids. About half the field got to slam. Many auctions were uninspired guesses and the rest seem to use some perhaps alertable stuff, but did not recognize it..

If you treat the auto-splinter as 0/1 losers rather than a singleton then you bid 4♣

[mike777]

mw64ahw, on 2025-October-13, 08:07, said:

Can't you do that at the 3-level?

Over 2N I use transfer then 4M to show the mild slam try and show KCs/controls directly otherwise. Texas transfers are a sign-off.

t

at the three level? that is my second suit on my rebid

1nt=2h
2s-3c.

[P_Marlowe]

AL78, on 2025-October-13, 07:38, said:

Isn't 1NT - 3M a standard way of showing slam interest in a major?

If you dont play xfer, than this the way.
The variant DavidKok described is based on playing xfer and Texas Transfer.
If you play those, you have 2ways of reaching 4M,
#1 via the Texas Transfer
#2 via low Transfer, followed by bidding 4M, after opener executed the transfer

[mike777]

 mw64ahw, on 2025-October-13, 08:16, said:

If you treat the auto-splinter as 0/1 losers rather than a singleton then you bid 4♣

Thanks if you mean shortness or ace or King? I considered that but in practice the difference matters. Ideally I would like to show either. I seem to be able to do that after starting with stayman. Not that it has ever come up. Smile.

Over transfers, once partner does not super accept or I cannot show shortness, or a good second suit I seem stuck with tfr and jump to four.

[akwoo]

I think transfer then 4♠ as a mild slam try is quite descriptive for this hand. The problem is that your partner needs to understand what a mild semi-balanced slam try looks like and evaluate their hand accordingly. I'll bet that if you gave your partner's hand to an expert they would've made a try over your 4♠.

[mike777]

akwoo, on 2025-October-13, 09:09, said:

I think transfer then 4♠ as a mild slam try is quite descriptive for this hand. The problem is that your partner needs to understand what a mild semi-balanced slam try looks like and evaluate their hand accordingly. I'll bet that if you gave your partner's hand to an expert they would've made a try over your 4♠.

Thanks, we are certainly far from experts. I have about a thousand points, pard almost 3 thousand. New partnership, but motivated. smile.

With the local Regional coming up over Halloween, some of the 5-8 thousand pt. players have asked us to play up with them in the KO events. Since my last Regional events were decades ago, my biggest concern is stamina, concentration and focus over the week long event. Fighting a bad flu this week...

Partner's hand 1NT(14-16) was:

J75...AJ5....AQ....KJ983

[P_Marlowe]

mike777, on 2025-October-13, 09:45, said:

<snip>
Partner's hand 1NT(14-16)
<snip>

I am not sure, I would make a slam move playing 14-16, holding a semi bal. 14 count.
You are looking for a 30HCP slam without shortage, and your values are scattered.
I am not sure p can make a sensible decision of going on / stopping.

I am not even sure, I would do it playing 15-17.
And you may be in the upgrade business as well?

[mike777]

P_Marlowe, on 2025-October-13, 09:57, said:

I am not sure, I would make a slam move playing 14-16, holding a semi bal. 14 count.
You are looking for a 30HCP slam without shortage, and your values are scattered.
I am not sure p can make a sensible decision of going on / stopping.

I am not even sure, I would do it playing 15-17.
And you may be in the upgrade business as well?

Thanks, all excellent points. This was a Cuebid daily challenge deal, actually todays, still going on.. Group of 8 hands daily.

About half the field, bid the slam, three stars max EV.

[P_Marlowe]

mike777, on 2025-October-13, 10:10, said:

Thanks, all excellent points. This was a Cuebid daily challenge deal, actually todays, still going on.. Group of 8 hands daily.

About half the field, bid the slam, three stars max EV.

I can understand it made, and it will certainly be a reasonable slam.
Q is, how high would 4M have been rated.

The problem is, how often will you end up in a stupid contract.
I like the daily challenge, I did a couple with my wife, but one needs
to clear eyed, just because on a given set something makes, it may not
be good, ... just because certain fields go for it, does not mean, the
field action is reasonable.

Anyway: I think it is a interesting Q, if one should make the slam move,
and I would stipulate the standard method.
If you are able to make a slam move lower, the slam moves gets less risky.

[akwoo]

I can see the problem your partner has - they likely need either Ax or AQ(x) in clubs from you for slam to be better than a finesse. Given they have the ♣K, they can find out about the ♣A by bidding 5♦, but 5♠ might be too high if you don't have A♣ and whichever club finesse they take is off, and you could still have Axx in clubs. (I suppose slam could make if you have AKQxxx Kx Kxx Qx, but is that too good for a mild slam try?)

If you have time and want to invest in the partnership, it might be worth a long discussion over exactly how strong a mild slam try is in terms of playing strength - whether your hand qualifies and if it's a max or a min for that bid - and consequently what hands proceed over such a mild slam try. (You could also do it the other way - decide which hands by opener will keep going and use that to decide which hands by responder qualify.) Keep in mind slam bidding is not about counting points, but about visualizing possible hands for partner and deciding if the combined hands have 12 tricks before they get 2 or if there is some other information you need to (and can) find out before deciding.

But it's not clear to me if you and your partner have the level of bidding skill for this discussion to actually be helpful (I'm not sure I do - analyzing is much easier away from the table when you have infinite time), and, on net (keeping in mind you lose when you find a 60% slam and go down), this is worth less than a board in a few hundred, probabilistically speaking.

[steve2005]

Playing secondary transfers after 2 red transfers handles one suited slam tries like this easily and also handles minor 2 suiters better.
After 1NT-2♥-2♠
2NT - shows 4+ clubs GF
3♣ - shows 4+ diamond GF
3♦ - shows both majors
3♥ - shows 6+ spades either INV or a slam try

[mw64ahw]

steve2005, on 2025-October-13, 12:23, said:

Playing secondary transfers after 2 red transfers handles one suited slam tries this easily and also handles minor 2 suiters better.
After 1NT-2♥-2♠
2NT - shows 4+ clubs GF
3♣ - shows 4+ diamond GF
3♦ - shows both majors
3♥ - shows 6+ hearts either INV or a slam try

I assume 3♥ should read 6♠