[jillybean]

I've played "Drury" one way, 2 way, reverse, and my preferred version 2D Drury leaving a 2C bid as natural.

Now one of my partners would like to play

2C 6-11 4 card, opener bids 2D to invite
2D 6-11 3 card

Does anyone have any experience with this?

[mw64ahw]

jillybean, on 2025-August-18, 20:58, said:

I've played "Drury" one way, 2 way, reverse, and my preferred version 2D Drury leaving a 2C bid as natural.

Now one of my partners would like to play

2C 6-11 4 card, opener bids 2D to invite
2D 6-11 3 card

Does anyone have any experience with this?

Isn't the point of Drury to show a limit raise opposite what may be a light 3rd seat opener?
Is the range quoted too large in most cases to do so unless you have some decent shape?
If playing Drury in itself is an invite why bother in the 4-card example re-inviting?
I'd stick to 2♣ being natural

[helene_t]

So a simple raise is 0-5?

The 2♣ response could have a wide range as opener can ask with 2♦. 6-11 is a bit too wide though, IMHO.

But 2♦ should have a narrow range.

[harikannan]

2C should be at least good 7 pts and 4 card trump support.
2D is 10-11(12) pts with 3 card support.

Can you please explain the logic behind the proposed scheme?

[DavidKok]

The wide range of 2♣ and 2♦ is, in my opinion, not a huge problem (though it's probably not beneficial). Personally, in the partnerships where I play Drury, I prefer for the 2M rebid to mean "We do not have game opposite a passed hand", neither confirming nor denying a 'real' opener. By contrast, the sequences 1M-2♣; 2♦ and 1♠-2♣; 2♥ all say "We might have game opposite the right Drury hand", with some specifications on what hands I'm looking for. With this continuation it is not too much of a problem to add more hands to the bottom of the range of the Drury bid. Such a wider range primarily costs on auctions like 1M-2♣; 3♣, which for me is positive but still not forcing to game. Such a bid is risky opposite what might be a 6-count, so you'll see a decrease in frequency. This hurts your ability to show shape on intermediate strength openings (in the 13-16 range, approximately).\
With the structure you proposed, this will be especially bad on 1♥-2♦. Now there is zero room below 2♥ to show that game might be on if responder has a maximum, but going past 2♥ on what might be a 6-count is also bad.

As helene pointed out though, the main reason I don't like this suggestion is that it overlaps with the simple raise 1M-2M. I don't see much of a need to make that weaker, so I don't think this shift will gain much.

[jillybean]

This literally landed on my lap last night and my initial thought was why so wide ranging?
I don’t see any benefit in the 3 card raise.
I’ve been trying to find some benefit of the 4 card range hand. With serious slam interest, opener could bypass the ask and start a cue sequence. Probably too infrequent and obscure

Harikannan, we play 10-13 nt so your 2D range is too wide and I think you’ll find all players have opened the 12 count and some have opened the 11 count.

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean, on 2025-August-19, 04:41, said:

This literally landed on my lap last night and my initial thought was why so wide ranging?
I don’t see any benefit in the 3 card raise.
I’ve been trying to find some benefit of the 4 card range hand. With serious slam interest, opener could bypass the ask and start a cue sequence. Probably too infrequent and obscure

Harikannan, we play 10-13 nt so your 2D range is too wide and I think you’ll find all players have opened the 12 count and some have opened the 11 count.

The knowledge of an existing 9 card fit is useful, ..., I am not a fanatic, and I dont buy in crusader thinking that
a 2NT gf raise of the major should always promise 4+ card support, but if you are a member of this church,
it is certainly sensible to also to include limit raises in your believe system.
It rarely gets mentioned, but LTC works well with a 9 card fit (5/4 or 6/3), and you should be a bit cautious,
if only having a 5-3 fit, how empty / full your glass of water is having discovered a 4/4 is a different story,
and a not related to your original q.

[jillybean]

P_Marlowe, on 2025-August-20, 09:56, said:

The knowledge of an existing 9 card fit is useful, ..., I am not a fanatic, and I dont buy in crusader thinking that
a 2NT gf raise of the major should always promise 4+ card support, but if you are a member of this church,
it is certainly sensible to also to include limit raises in your believe system.
It rarely gets mentioned, but LTC works well with a 9 card fit (5/4 or 6/3), and you should be a bit cautious,
if only having a 5-3 fit, how empty / full your glass of water is having discovered a 4/4 is a different story,
and a not related to your original q.

I'm a member of the Jacoby promises 4 congregation, but as with other gadgets, I have changed my faith when presented with new evidence.

I gave up 2 way "Drury" after reading on here a very convincing post that suggested 3 or 4 cards had little bearing on openers decision to go to game.
I haven't missed it.

Your LTC comment has me wondering again. I think I am right in saying LTC is only useful in competitive auctions.
Heck it's complicated.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

First of all, how often do you open light in 3rd seat.
If you rarely do, you wont need Drury a lot, if at all.
If you dont need it, you wont see a difference between
the various methods.

Using 2C / 2D as some kind of major suit raises, lets
say Bergen raises on the 2 level, is certainly a sensible
way of using those bids, obv. there are other options.

If you define 2C as LTC limit raise with 8 or less loosers
and 4+ card support, and 2D as 3 card limit raise, you will
be doing fine, it will even match the original description.

You could also say, that 2C showes a unbal. limit raise,
with a shortage, and 2D showes a semibal. limit raise.
Take your pick.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jillybean]

P_Marlowe, on 2025-August-20, 11:01, said:

Hi,

First of all, how often do you open light in 3rd seat.
If you rarely do, you wont need Drury a lot, if at all.
If you dont need it, you wont see a difference between
the various methods.

Using 2C / 2D as some kind of major suit raises, lets
say Bergen raises on the 2 level, is certainly a sensible
way of using those bids, obv. there are other options.

If you define 2C as LTC limit raise with 8 or less loosers
and 4+ card support, and 2D as 3 card limit raise, you will
be doing fine, it will even match the original description.

You could also say, that 2C showes a unbal. limit raise,
with a shortage, and 2D showes a semibal. limit raise.
Take your pick.

With kind regards
Marlowe

Hi, thanks

Q. First of all, how often do you open light in 3rd seat? A. As often as possible.

You have another interesting twist on "drury". Unfortunately, I don't use LTC

[mycroft]

The only partner I'm willing to play 2-way Drury with (because I like bidding 2♦ with the kind of hand that can't quite open 2♦. It happens, surprisingly frequently) plays:

2♣ 4 cards, 8-11
2♦ 3 cards, LR (good 10 counting support points)

Because that 9th trump is gold, assuming partner opened with a real hand (and has 5 trumps).

[mikeh]

Playing a wide range drury is silly. It’s unnecessary since I assume that you still permit a simple raise…if not, why not? And, if so, why are you bidding drury with 3 card support and 6 hcp????

As for what kind of drury, I recall Fred Gitelman saying, some years ago, that he didn’t like 2 way drury because if openerbsigned off over a 4 card drury, the opps were in a good position to balance…better than if they were uncertain as to responder’s length.

Despite that, and I pay a lot of attention to Fred’s ideas, I’ve continued playing 2 way and not noticed any serious issue, perhaps because the bulk of my playing is not at the highest levels.

As for my preference, currently:

2C is a good constructive raise or better, 4 card support. Opener’s 2D asks and responder can deny a limit raise by 2M and all other bids have prescribed meanings, describing a limit raise, including splinters and concentration of values.

2D is a 3 card limit raise.

We also play fit jumps by a passed hand

Edit: in my opinion, it is often very useful for opener to know asap the degree of fit, hence my strong liking for two way

[jillybean]

This...

fred, on 2008-January-06, 09:12, said:

Having been born in Toronto and having spent most of my life living in that fine city, I am dismayed to learn that its name has become associated with this convention!

My opinion:

Unless you frequently open 4-card majors in 3rd/4th seat on hands that could easily produce a game (not a practice I would recommend), you should definitely not play any form of 2-way Drury that identifies the # of trumps responder has.

2-way Drury helps the opponents much more than it helps you.

Suppose the opening bidder has no interest in game. Do you think he cares how many trumps you have? Well maybe he will care when he has to play the hand, but there is no harm waiting until the dummy comes down in order for him to find out.

Meanwhile the opponents certainly care - knowing whether the responder has 3 or 4 trumps will make it easier for them to know whether or not to balance. If they don't balance, gratuitously giving them this information that you don't need could easily help them to find the most effective opening lead.

Now suppose the opener does have interest in game. Either he cares about how many trumps responder has or he doesn't. If he doesn't care then obviously it can only be bad to give the opponents this information.

If he does care there are other ways he can find out (for example, he can reply 2D to 1-way-Drury-2C and responder can jump if he has 4 trumps).

For me this is not about giving up the natural 2D. If given the choice between:

1) Playing 2-way Drury
2) Playing 2C as Drury and never bidding 2D natural

I would chose 2 (Edited - I said 1 by mistake when I made my original post)

The snake oil salesmen have had a field day with this convention

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

Still the same 17.5 years later?

[jillybean]

I was thinking about this

awm, on 2008-September-06, 01:08, said:

I've always been a bit suspicious of the use of 2♣ drury where 2♦ announces a "real opening hand." This suggests that you are going to open hands which are so bad that even opposite what would be a game force across from a real opening bid, you are not willing to risk the three level. Some go so far as to say that the auction Pass-1♠-2♣-2♠ bars responder from bidding on no matter what he has. This sort of approach seems mighty close to a psychic control to me.

As to the three-card vs. four-card distinction, you generally have a lot of space to make game tries over drury. You can sort out responder's degree of support when opener needs to know while keeping opponents in the dark when opener doesn't care. So I don't think the need to know this for constructive reasons is that big a deal. Assuredly it might help you somewhat in competitive auctions, but in competitive auctions the drury bid helps opponents a lot too (i.e. they know that they should normally balance over a declined four-card raise because you have at least an eight card fit and generally nine, whereas they know that balancing over the three-card raise is more dangerous).

I like 2♦ as the only drury, leaving 2♣ free as a natural call (since I play a weak 2♦ but not weak 2♣).

I've stuck with this, except with partners who refuse to play it or the occasional adventure with a new gadget.

[blackshoe]

There is Lawrence Drury, where 2♣ could have 3 or 4 trumps. Now as with Reverse Drury 2M is a sign-off and 2♦ asks for more information. Responder's rebids now show whether he has 3 or 4 trumps and whether he is minimum or maximum. I don't remember the details except that 2♥ and 2♠ are both artificial. See The Complete Guide To Passed Hand Bidding.

[Flem72]

I've always preferred a simple Reverse Drury structure that allows responder to tell opener what kind of LR s/he holds:1M-2C-2D-:2M = 3cd, play your normal game tries2N = 4cd, balancednew suit = 4cd, short