[jillybean]

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This hand created a lot of discussion today, South is dealer.

PLaying standard system, (nothing fancy) how would your table bid this?

[thepossum]

I think for me it is quite likely I would bid 2NT as south and end in 3 hearts

Always a chance I could open 1 club or even 1 heart - naughty me - I think I prefer 2NT for obvious reasons. Makes auctions much simpler sometimes

I will let others discuss resemblances to a normal auction

[smerriman]

1C - P - P - 1S
P - 1N - P - P
P

[mw64ahw]

1♣-P-P-1♠
X-P-2♥-P
P-P

[helene_t]

At mp maybe
1c-p-p-1s
x-xx-2h-p
p-2s-p-p
3h

At imps north bids 2d instead of 2h and 2s ends the auction

[paulg]

1♣¹ - Pass - Pass - 1♠²
Dbl - 1NT³ - Pass⁴ - Pass
Pass<sup>5

1</sup> The jacks are not pulling full weight and your methods over 1♣ are a lot better than your methods over 2NT, so I would not upgrade
² Some might pass if their partner cannot call over 1♣, but you could have the balance of points if partner has shortish spades
³ Shows values and bidding 1NT first is normally the winning action
⁴ Now is not the time to put your head on the chopping board, especially with no fit
⁵ No need to show your hand a second time

Needless to say I would not expect this auction at many tables even in an expert field, so I don't think there is a 'normal' auction.

[jillybean]

Of course, this was played in a variety of contracts.
Clubs, Hearts, Diamonds, NT by North South and Spades by EW. With NS misbidders coming out with top boards and some North's berated for passing 1♣. "don't leave me in 1♣!"

[pescetom]

I agree with Paulg's well described auction.

If North is berated for passing then I will encourage the pair to discuss which openings are forcing.

[mikeh]

You asked for ‘normal’ auctions, which (as the posts and the comments at the club show, means very different things to different people).

I think the most normal start is 1C P P 1S.

In my partnerships we wouldn’t pass 1C, but we don’t play a ‘normal’ system….we open 1C on 2+ (in one we could be 3352, in the other, we wouldn’t have 5 diamonds) and we have transfer responses. Plus, and thus has proven to be extremely valuable, after 1C 1R by responder, a 1N rebid by opener shows a balanced 17-19, denying 4 cards in the major shown by responder. So for us this is an easy 1D response, showing 4+ hearts.

If east bid, which most would but some wouldn’t (sterile shape, no texture in the spade suit) south would cue 2S and NS would probably stop in 3H….south’s spade holding should make him pull in a bit.

Going back to a ‘normal’ auction, the big question is whether and how south should act over 1S.

For acting: 19 hcp, and some reason to hope that we have a partscore available.
And, if we don’t, maybe going down in a partscore does better than defending a making spade partial
And maybe we push them a little higher and turn a minus into a plus

For passing: 1098 in spades is as bad a holding as one could possibly have. Longer, and there are good chances that partner is short. Shorter, and maybe we have a ruff in our hand.
3424 shape. Most players would stretch a little to respond 1H (that’s maybe more true of tournament players than club players), so there’s significant risk that partner will be diamonds. What would you bid, as north, after south doubles 1S and you hold Jxx xxx xxxxx xx?


My natural inclination is to pass, but I’m a certified chicken.

One out of left field possibility is to bid 1N over 1S. It’s right on hcp and shape, missing only a spade stopper. I wouldn’t do it, though, since I don’t have a source of tricks and partner can’t have the fillers I need to get out for -50 nor, likely, even -100.

As for opening 2N: in my partnerships we upgrade into and out of opening notrump ranges all the time….when a hand warrants it by having more playing strength than most 19 counts (in terms of 2N) would have, This hand is actually a mediocre 19 count, far from an upgrade. If you open 2N with this hand, you should be announcing (partner should be announcing) 19-21, not 20-21. Otherwise you are cheating…deliberately playing a range different from what you are telling the opps. Not the most heinous of crimes but, at the least, unethical.

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2025-July-10, 09:38, said:

I agree with Paulg's well described auction.

If North is berated for passing then I will encourage the pair to discuss which openings are forcing.

I've talked about this before on here, club players playing a forcing "don't leave me in 1♣" system is not uncommon.

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2025-July-10, 10:45, said:

I've talked about this before on here, club players playing a forcing "don't leave me in 1♣" system is not uncommon.

Not uncommon here either. But if the agreement is to never pass, it should be disclosed appropriately (which includes an alert of 1C, over here, even if the agreed distribution is otherwise announceable).

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2025-July-10, 11:52, said:

Not uncommon here either. But if the agreement is to never pass, it should be disclosed appropriately (which includes an alert of 1C, over here, even if the agreed distribution is otherwise announceable).

Agree. I doubt that anyone playing the forcing "don't leave me in 1♣" would appreciate why it must be disclosed.

[mikeh]

I think you’ll find that 1C isn’t forcing. But responder passes only with at least 3 or 4 clubs. So those players would be indignant if you told them that they have to alert 1C as ‘forcing’

[pescetom]

 mikeh, on 2025-July-10, 13:07, said:

I think you’ll find that 1C isn’t forcing. But responder passes only with at least 3 or 4 clubs. So those players would be indignant if you told them that they have to alert 1C as ‘forcing’

You're thinking at least two levels higher than the players involved. They have grasped that it is easier to stay in the auction on thin air rather than to have real agreements about what happens otherwise. They get indignant when you tell them that they have to alert a bid as forcing because they are confident that nobody really knows which bids are forcing and they are quite ready to pass any bid if partner does not seem convinced, except perhaps a 2 clubs opening or (God forbid) 4NT in any context.

[smerriman]

pescetom, on 2025-July-10, 15:00, said:

You're thinking at least two levels higher than the players involved. They have grasped that it is easier to stay in the auction on thin air rather than to have real agreements about what happens otherwise. They get indignant when you tell them that they have to alert a bid as forcing because they are confident that nobody really knows which bids are forcing and they are quite ready to pass any bid if partner does not seem to approve, except perhaps a 2 clubs opening or (God forbid) 4NT in any context.

I thought it was simply that once they played in a 3-2 or worse fit, thought that was a disaster, and decided not to do it again, despite the fact they'll get much worse disasters after the likely continuations.