[jillybean]

---

Club bridge, MP
You don't, do you?

[mw64ahw]

I do 1♣ or 1N playing a Weak NT

[paulg]

Everyone opens this these days.

I'm not saying it is good bridge (in a traditional sense) although I believe it is winning bridge, but it is not even close in my opinion.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I usually would pass, but we play 11-14, we are green, partner likes it, so I would do it.
If I would play 12-14 I would pass, but given that you are 4-4 in the blacks, you could start
with 1C, intending to bid 1S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[DavidKok]

In several systems I would be allowed to open this - Precision, natural with a kamikaze NT, strong club. In standard, or a 2/1 GF variation that is close enough to it, I think pass is better though. Our hand really isn't worth 11 with such weak spots and values in our shortest suit, despite the A-A-K. Also with spade length I'm slightly less worried about being pressed out of the auction. We're also in second seat.

So it will depend on system - I would like to be playing a system that hands me an opening bid for balanced 11-counts, but in standard I will pass.

[mycroft]

• Every day of the week. If it's bad, oh well. I mean, it has 4 spades, so you are odds-on to have the boss suit in competition.
  
• Playing K/S, I follow the rules in the K/S book which says "three QT is a mandatory opener". i.e. this is an automatic "12-14" 1NT opener, and has been since 1965.
  
• Playing my current Precision, it isn't even a minimum (although I am uncomfortable opening 1♦ with 10 flat, because partner will take me for 11-13 when I rebid NT/pass in competition. That doesn't mean I won't do it if "it looks like 11 balanced to me".)

[jillybean]

mw64ahw, on 2025-March-26, 09:25, said:

I do

paulg, on 2025-March-26, 09:38, said:

Everyone opens this these days.

P_Marlowe, on 2025-March-26, 09:38, said:

I would usually pass, but...I would do it

DavidKok said:

In several systems I would be allowed to open this... in standard I will pass.

mycroft, on 2025-March-26, 09:50, said:

Every day of the week.

The "I do's" win.

My motto is open every hand with AAK but this had me a little nervous if I'm playing standard,
It's a hand sent to me from one of the players in my game. I will post the full hand in a minute, and I'll hear what happened later today.

[jillybean]

---

Things could get ugly, quickly.

[Cyberyeti]

Could get ugly fast whether you open or not, fwiw, I don't like this as a weak NT, I don't mind opening a club if playing strong.

[jillybean]

Cyberyeti, on 2025-March-26, 11:14, said:

Could get ugly fast whether you open or not, fwiw, I don't like this as a weak NT, I don't mind opening a club if playing strong.

I agree, it ugly as soon as a bidding card hits the table.

Could you please explain your reasoning no to weak NT, yes 1♣ strong NT

[Cyberyeti]

jillybean, on 2025-March-26, 11:34, said:

I agree, it ugly as soon as a bidding card hits the table.

Could you please explain your reasoning no to weak NT, yes 1♣ strong NT

More difficult to double, it's the sort of hand where opps may have no biddable game but I'm only making 3 tricks.

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean, on 2025-March-26, 10:56, said:

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Things could get ugly, quickly.

Not knowing the 5-0 break, ... getting doubled for blood in a 8 card fit, having a combined 19HCP,
is not, what I fear most.

[mw64ahw]

As East I'd bid 2♣ 5+♦4+♠ with 2♥ being my natural bid for South. Now West can play in the Moysian or Pass. Yes the 2♥ contract goes down, but it beats 2♠ even doubled. My downside is we compete to 3♥X.

[pescetom]

My head agrees with Davidkok that Pass is the call playing 2/1, but my hand might still pull 1♣ on Thursday or even 1♠ on Friday night.
Perhaps -120, -50, -130? respectively on the actual layout, although I would lay odds on Pass doing well in the long run.

[johnu]

jillybean, on 2025-March-26, 10:56, said:

Things could get ugly, quickly.

I put on my blood pressure monitor, and if it registers a pulse, I open. If there is no pulse and pressure, I pass and immediately call 911.

As far as things getting ugly quickly, that can happen when there are bad breaks. If you are worried about bad breaks and possibly getting doubled, you should pass out every hand, or only defend. That being said, I still remember a hand I played while in grad school, playing for very large stakes for a grad student, where I went for 1100 in a voluntarily bid game.

But why would you get overboard? You have less than half the points, and only a 6-2 fit with no ruffing values in North's hand.

[jillybean]

johnu, on 2025-March-26, 18:27, said:

I put on my blood pressure monitor, and if it registers a pulse, I open. If there is no pulse and pressure, I pass and immediately call 911.

As far as things getting ugly quickly, that can happen when there are bad breaks. If you are worried about bad breaks and possibly getting doubled, you should pass out every hand, or only defend. That being said, I still remember a hand I played while in grad school, playing for very large stakes for a grad student, where I went for 1100 in a voluntarily bid game.

But why would you get overboard? You have less than half the points, and only a 6-2 fit with no ruffing values in North's hand.

Yes, I’ve survived much worse than this.

A common problem here was when North didn’t open and then tried to show these values later in the auction.

[mikl_plkcc]

jillybean, on 2025-March-26, 09:16, said:

---

Club bridge, MP
You don't, do you?

My evaluation:
AAK, I count as 12 (where A=4.5, K=3, Q=1.5, J=0.75 and T=0.25), and I count shape in form of 1-2-3 for void-singleton-doubleton (1-3-5 as a dummy with 4-card support).

However, there are wasted values (honour in short suit), the way I quantify is to only count high cards OR shortness, but not both, so the shortness in the AK does not count, leaving the whole hand 12 total points only, not enough for me to open (13 is an opener for me). Therefore, I pass.

At the 3rd or 4th seat, I open 1 point lighter, but only with length (at least 4) in ♠, in such case I will open 1♣ (I play strong NT) when the threat of them stealing the contract isn't great.

Also, in my methods, all game-forcing fit convention still apply after a passed hand, including Jacoby 2NT, because a non-opener can be reevaluated to a game force with a 4-card fit if there is a shortness.

jillybean, on 2025-March-27, 09:22, said:

Yes, I’ve survived much worse than this.

A common problem here was when North didn’t open and then tried to show these values later in the auction.

In my methods, the auction will develop:
(Pass) - Pass - (1♦) - 2♥
(Pass) - Pass - (Double) - Pass
(3♣)# - All Pass

# As we are playing MPs, it may well be a marginal penalty pass at this point (the trump quality is marginal for a penalty pass) - this is absolutely prohibited in IMPs, doubling for penalties between 2♥ and 4♦ (except 3NT) is never allowed if there is something we can bid.

South preempt showing a weak hand and 6 cards will keep the partnership from being too excited with a minimal fit, as partner has already passed, a preempt can now be made on an imperfect shape (in this case, length in opponent's suit) for the most destructive potential to prevent the 4th seat bidding at the low level to find their fit.

[mycroft]

yes, it could. It won't be the worst result I've had (that would be "going for 2000 in a contract I bid to make". Not the biggest number, but definitely the worst result on bad breaks), and at matchpoints, -800 is the same as -200. And we'll probably have company. And the opponents have to work out not to get into the craziness, and to double, or I win points there. Hard to do with the East hand over 1NT (granted, if they are able to double with that, West will be drooling when doubling the 2♥ runout).

I am the last bridge pessimist, I know, but I still know that catering to partner having "just enough" for them to not make anything, but for us to go for our life, is losing bridge. It happens. It'll happen again. It doesn't happen a lot more than it does.

[Cyberyeti]

mycroft, on 2025-March-27, 10:53, said:

yes, it could. It won't be the worst result I've had (that would be "going for 2000 in a contract I bid to make". Not the biggest number, but definitely the worst result on bad breaks), and at matchpoints, -800 is the same as -200. And we'll probably have company. And the opponents have to work out not to get into the craziness, and to double, or I win points there. Hard to do with the East hand over 1NT (granted, if they are able to double with that, West will be drooling when doubling the 2♥ runout).

I am the last bridge pessimist, I know, but I still know that catering to partner having "just enough" for them to not make anything, but for us to go for our life, is losing bridge. It happens. It'll happen again. It doesn't happen a lot more than it does.

This hand has some particular red flags, AK tight is a really bad holding. I open 11s a 12-14 1N more than most, but not this one. I evaluate it despite A AK as 11 so I don't open it playing 12-14.

[mycroft]

I am happy to be argued that this isn't worth opening. You are probably right, it's just one of those ones that I don't have to think about because my system tells me what to do. I'll give up some vig on this hand and the one or two others a year I get for the advantage I get on the other hands because I didn't have to think about whether this was "bad enough" to take out of the rules.

However, I am not going to take the table layout as the reason why. That's just horrendous breaks, and it could have happened with another three HCP (taken from partner).