[mikl_plkcc]

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Partner thought that I had 10 points because I made a free bid at the 3-level, but I thought that the bid was just purely competitive and requested partner to choose 3♦ or 3♠, because there were two opening hands and two responding hands so the high card points were spread evenly, and they had a great ♥ fit that their 2♥ was definitely making, and my 5-5 2-suiter strongly indicated that we had a fit as well.

What do you normally expect for the 3♦ bid here?

[mike777]

Yes 3D shows extras
Why?

Partner passed over 2h limits their hand.
Partner did not make a support double, so denies 3 spades
With a competitive hand you can
Double or bid good/bad 2NT

[mw64ahw]

I play fast arrival as a distributional Pass/Correct and would X or cue-bid with extras. However, with a pick-up partner I'd treat 3♦ as forcing.

[helene_t]

If you play Walsh (but maybe Walsh should not apply after their double?), then 3di is just to play.

If you don't play Walsh then a weak 3di bid is maybe not so practical, as we should sometimes play 2sp. This is especially the case If you don't play support doubles so p could have three spades.

So if not playing Walsh, I think 3di should be about 11 points. A stronger or weaker hand can double. Stronger hands can also bid 3he. Weaker and stronger hands can also bid g/b 2nt If you play that.

[mikl_plkcc]

 mw64ahw, on 2025-March-08, 00:15, said:

I play fast arrival as a distributional Pass/Correct and would X or cue-bid with extras. However, with a pick-up partner I'd treat 3♦ as forcing.

This was I intended. Our system notes contain a statement that "a new suit by an unpassed partner is forcing, unless the other partner has narrowly limited his hand". An example of the previous sentence is that, we play that a new suit after a preempt as non-forcing because a preempt is a picture bid. I suppose that the pass by the partner has limited his hand so my bid should no longer be forcing.

 helene_t, on 2025-March-08, 03:08, said:

If you play Walsh (but maybe Walsh should not apply after their double?), then 3di is just to play.

If you don't play Walsh then a weak 3di bid is maybe not so practical, as we should sometimes play 2sp. This is especially the case If you don't play support doubles so p could have three spades.

So if not playing Walsh, I think 3di should be about 11 points. A stronger or weaker hand can double. Stronger hands can also bid 3he. Weaker and stronger hands can also bid g/b 2nt If you play that.

I don't play Walsh. I have no idea what a support double is, it's too confusing. Our agreements on double is only takeout or penalty (unless in a conventional sequence), and all doubles, other than penalty doubles, are "takeout" in a sense that requests partner to choose a suit. So a double denies the ability to bid any other suits (I would need to think about what it meant, if it effectively meant partner had 3 ♠). I also could not bid 2♠ because it would guarantee 6.

[mikl_plkcc]

If North made a double at the second round, our agreement would be a takeout (negative) double, which would mean:

No 4 ♠ (otherwise he would have supported)
4 ♦ (4 cards in the unbid minor if both majors are bid)
No 6 ♣, or possibly 5 very good ♣, (otherwise he would have rebid 3♣
And extremely likely short in ♥ (so he had an urge to bid)

So the most likely distribution I would infer if my partner doubled would be 3=2=4=4, as he would not be able to reverse into 3♦, other possibilities include 3=1=4=5, 2=2=4=5 but unlikely anything else since with 5 ♦ the opening is 1♦.