BBO Discussion Forums: ACBL versus EBU and SBL rules - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

ACBL versus EBU and SBL rules

#1 User is offline   thasler 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: 2018-August-15

Posted 2025-January-27, 08:10

Hi,

I have a basic director's qualification in the Scottish Bridge Union (SBU) and am now booked in to take a course to become a director of the American Contract Bridge League (ACBL). There a just a few differences in the rules between Scotland and England but there seem quite a few differences between British and American rules. Most notably, the use of STOP cards continues in the UK but has been discontinued in the USA and the rules for alerts and announcements seem quite different. Can anybody help me find a summary of at least the key differences?

Thanks in advance
0

#2 User is offline   mycroft 

  • Secretary Bird
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,582
  • Joined: 2003-July-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary, D18; Chapala, D16

Posted 2025-January-27, 11:33

This is an issue, because there are very few with current experience in both environments.

One question is important (although maybe not for the test): online or FtF ACBL games? A lot of the differences go away online.

Having said both of those things (and know that I am Just Reading The English Regulations, that doesn't mean I know them or can even interpret them correctly - or "the way the EBU has decided to interpret them"):

The Laws are the Laws. You know the Laws, they apply the same way here as everywhere. Thankfully the "RA options" have been whittled down to almost nothing (we "recommend" face down LooT, we don't allow people to access their CC at their turn, ...)

The regulations - aren't.
  • As you said, the pattern for and after a jump bid is different (but note that it *doesn't* say that you don't pause after skip bids. It just says that you no longer warn the opponents to).
  • The biggies, of course, are the Convention Charts and the Alert Procedure. Take everything you know from the Blue Book and throw it out(1). Everything from the handling of convention cards (even the shape and format of the convention card!) to what needs to be stated before the round, to what is legal (and when) and what needs to be Alerted is so different that you *must* have the documents on hand, your memory will 100% lie to you.
  • Read the Bidding box regulations completely. In particular, "when a call is made" is vastly different from EBU, which leads to many fewer L25A rulings and equivalently more L16 situations.
  • The pattern at the end of the auction is different as well. That's history and practise, not regulation, but it makes a big difference.
  • There is a document (I believe) that has been disseminated at the club level, one of the last things Matt Smith wrote, on claims (and cards played from dummy). If it is available to you, you should read it to get an idea of where we are expected to draw the line. Speaking of which, there are generic guidelines for "how cards would be played in a claim" that might be different from the EBU decisions.

I'm sure there's more, that's just what comes to mind right now. Note that effectively none of that will be on the exam, just the "RL exam" (that is, the game you're directing).

They recommend you get and read Duplicate Decisions (effectively, "the Laws for people who aren't comfortable reading the Laws"). So do I - a lot of the interpretations in there are based on our guidelines and regulations, and when you hit something that doesn't "read right", that's probably why; so you can go find the regulation (or ask someone).

Grab the Club Director's Handbook too. It probably will tell you more about how to open a club than how to direct in the ACBL vs the EBU, but it can't hurt.

Good Luck with it! Directing is fun, even here.

(1) No, actually, don't do that. The general information for players is still very useful. But over here, it's just Good Advice if there's no equivalent regulation.
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
0

#3 User is online   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,199
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2025-January-27, 16:56

View Postmycroft, on 2025-January-27, 11:33, said:

Read the Bidding box regulations completely. In particular, "when a call is made" is vastly different from EBU, which leads to many fewer L25A rulings and equivalently more L16 situations.

If I may be lazy and not read your regulations, what is this one about? L25A seems pretty clear.



View Postmycroft, on 2025-January-27, 11:33, said:

The Laws are the Laws. You know the Laws, they apply the same way here as everywhere. Thankfully the "RA options" have been whittled down to almost nothing (we "recommend" face down LooT, we don't allow people to access their CC at their turn, ...)

nige1 and I are not convinced :)
Off the top of my head, with no firm idea where you stand, how about:
- scoring multiple boards unplayed (the EBU gets this right, unlike FIGB)
- right to "reserve the right"
- prescribe a CC
- allow variation of understandings following an irregularity
- restrict the use of psychic artificial calls
?
0

#4 User is offline   mycroft 

  • Secretary Bird
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,582
  • Joined: 2003-July-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary, D18; Chapala, D16

Posted 2025-January-27, 21:19

In most of the world, a call is made with bidding boxes when the card has cleared the box with intent. That leads to a lot of "pull 1, 1 comes with it, notice 1, unintended call." or "call clears box, you're in second seat, bid out of turn". This is smart and right and the way the world should be.

In the ACBL, due to hysterical raisins that mainly boil down to "first adopter", a call is made when it is at or near the table (similar to declarer's played card). That same "1 came out with 1" gets the card pulled away or pushed down on the table to dislodge it, and 1 put on the table. Okay, not much different. But the bid clearing the box - it's not your turn? That's UI, not BooT.

Most of your "RA elections" are "regulations the RA is permitted to make by the Laws", or "regulations explaining how rights in the Law are to be exercised". Which I distinguish from "RA elections" like the 2007 12c2e ("weighted scores are The Law, but if the RA desires, they can insist on the 'best result likely/worst result at all possible' rule instead.") and "OL is face down, but the RA can allow/require face up OLs" or, as you say, "RAs can allow or disallow variation of system based on an opponent's infraction".

There are actually a few more than I thought, it seems, see "Options under the Laws" on the ACBL's tournaments page. Most, I think, are holdovers from the 2008 options, and I'm not sure if the Laws technically require a decision any more (or this could just be a regulation allowed by the Laws).
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
0

#5 User is online   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,199
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2025-January-28, 11:52

View Postmycroft, on 2025-January-27, 21:19, said:

In most of the world, a call is made with bidding boxes when the card has cleared the box with intent. That leads to a lot of "pull 1, 1 comes with it, notice 1, unintended call." or "call clears box, you're in second seat, bid out of turn". This is smart and right and the way the world should be.

In the ACBL, due to hysterical raisins that mainly boil down to "first adopter", a call is made when it is at or near the table (similar to declarer's played card). That same "1 came out with 1" gets the card pulled away or pushed down on the table to dislodge it, and 1 put on the table. Okay, not much different. But the bid clearing the box - it's not your turn? That's UI, not BooT.


Got it, thanks.
Our regulations too say that the call is made when the card is on the table. In practice as you say when an extra card is accidentally extracted it either gets pulled away (perilously) in mid-air or dislodged once the whole block is on the table. I don't remember (as a player) many cases where the card was retracted in mid-air because out of turn, and even less having any suspicion that anyone was gaming the extra card in any way, so I guess it is not a critical area. I do agree that "cleared the box with intent" would be better, though.
0

#6 User is offline   thasler 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: 2018-August-15

Posted Yesterday, 18:44

First my apologies for the late thanks for these contributions, particularly @secretrary bird. I have been loaned the books you mentioned and will focus on the laws you have highlighted.

Thanks to all of you
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users