[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

This happened last night, in a Realbridge club tournament.
You are playing against a student pair, who started to play 6-7 month ago.
You are one of the strongest pairs in the very diverse 10 pair field.

All red, in 4th chair you hold
♠KJ
♥QJ4
♦QT765
♣KT8

The auction

(Pass) - 1♠ (1) - (1NT (2)) - X (3)
(2C (4)) - ... (5)




(1) 5 card major, weak NT system, the 5 carder basically always get opened,
you play a tame rule of 20 opening style
(2) 15-17
(3) I guess you agree
(4) to play

(5) Over to you, what do you do, if partner
#1 passes
#2 bid 2S
#3 makes a T/O

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Cyberyeti]

We have different agreements to you, so difficult for me. Once 1N has been doubled for penalties, all doubles are penalties and we won't play 2m undoubled so pass is forcing.

Also what does 2♠ opener look like for you ? We play 2♠ rebid here as weak, but this could fall into your 2♠ opener.

[mike777]

1. Double, penalties
2. 3S
3. All doubles are for penalty

[P_Marlowe]

Cyberyeti, on 2025-January-14, 06:17, said:

We have different agreements to you, so difficult for me. Once 1N has been doubled for penalties, all doubles are penalties and we won't play 2m undoubled so pass is forcing.

Also what does 2♠ opener look like for you ? We play 2♠ rebid here as weak, but this could fall into your 2♠ opener.

At the given colors, and given that partner is dealer, a weak2 opening would have shown classical middle down the road strength weak2.

[P_Marlowe]

In case it matters, I forgot, scoring is IMPs.

As a bonus question, which card in your hand can you remove / replace by the lowest possible spot card,
and you still would make the penalty double of the 1NT overcall.

[Cyberyeti]

P_Marlowe, on 2025-January-14, 09:03, said:

In case it matters, I forgot, scoring is IMPs.

As a bonus question, which card in your hand can you remove / replace by the lowest possible spot card,
and you still would make the penalty double of the 1NT overcall.

We recently had 1♣(4+)-1N-X partner had Kxxx, AJ9x, Q10xx, x and doubled, this is not absolutely minimum but close to it, we open pretty light. A reasonable 10 or good 9 would be minimum.

[mycroft]

"Tame rule of 20" - so that means partner will pass the stupid Ro20 hands, so I can assume either cards or decent suits (that that KJ will fill in very nicely)?

My thought would be it would have to be more than one card to take it off a double ("one of my Aces - oh, right"); but maybe given my thought in the previous paragraph, the ♠K.

I play that a penalty double of 1NT forces us through 2♦ (probably should be 2♥ given we almost always play MPs, but -670 scares me), so similar responses to Mike and the Yeti. Not sure I'd double if partner passes (over either 2NT or 3♠), but "make it clear we aim to punish you if you come in and it's wrong" isn't a bad message to send, especially if they'll be playing us again next week.

IMP scoring - so if we're 500 into 600/620 it's no big loss; 800 into 600/620 is a similar size win; 500 into partscore (or -100 in game) is a bigger win; if we only get it 200 that's unfortunate, but unless it's really wonky that means we probably don't have game; if they make it, well, it's not the first -180 I've put in the books - and I still don't think it's going to be a huge loss (assume 7 IMPs).

[P_Marlowe]

mike777, on 2025-January-14, 08:07, said:

<snip>
3. All doubles are for penalty
<snip>

Just for clarification.

If partner passes, this is forcing, how high the force got generated is a different story,
and he is showing you 3+ cards in their suit.
If he makes a T/O, he is showing at most 2 cards in their suit, he knowes that a common action
by you will be to pass the T/O out, i.e. he is prepared to play the doubled contract

If you double, this is also not penalty, it is more like an optional double.

Why do we play that way? For simplicity, all low level doubles are for T/O, unless explictly defined
as penalty.

I dont want this to be a discussion, penalty vs. T/O.

[mike777]

 mycroft, on 2025-January-14, 11:00, said:

"Tame rule of 20" - so that means partner will pass the stupid Ro20 hands, so I can assume either cards or decent suits (that that KJ will fill in very nicely)?

My thought would be it would have to be more than one card to take it off a double ("one of my Aces - oh, right"); but maybe given my thought in the previous paragraph, the ♠K.

I play that a penalty double of 1NT forces us through 2♦ (probably should be 2♥ given we almost always play MPs, but -670 scares me), so similar responses to Mike and the Yeti. Not sure I'd double if partner passes (over either 2NT or 3♠), but "make it clear we aim to punish you if you come in and it's wrong" isn't a bad message to send, especially if they'll be playing us again next week.

IMP scoring - so if we're 500 into 600/620 it's no big loss; 800 into 600/620 is a similar size win; 500 into partscore (or -100 in game) is a bigger win; if we only get it 200 that's unfortunate, but unless it's really wonky that means we probably don't have game; if they make it, well, it's not the first -180 I've put in the books - and I still don't think it's going to be a huge loss (assume 7 IMPs).

I see you let everyone know there is a new sheriff in town.
And their name is Mr. Mycroft..