[donwaters]

Typically, North enters the scores on Bridgemate. I can find no Law that requires this. I have asked several directors, and no one knows, and I get different answers.

Can anyone point me to the source of this rule/custom?

Don Waters

[jillybean]

ACBL There is no law but there is a well established custom of North, rather than South controlling the Bridgemate.
Much like "you can't think for that long" and other nonsense.
Some North's are very particular about this and won't actually hand the BM to EW to verify the score but hold the BM while EW push the button. I wish they wouldn't do this, it can make it difficult for EW to see the result.

It obviously makes sense for North or South as the stationary pair, to have the Bridgemate at their side of the table.
At times I have had new players, unfamiliar with the BM sit N/S and the device sits EW for the session.

Bottom line, it doesn't matter but watch out if you get a stickler for these "rules".

[pescetom]

FIGB (if only as a comparison) it is by precise regulations NS responsibility to enter score, including with Bridgemate, specifically North if behind screens.

Notwithstanding those regulations, our phone-based scoring app currently allows any player at table to enter or confirm the score, which was useful to get started with not everyone ready and also to overcome covid concerns. As it becomes normal for all players to have phone and app ready I hope that Director will be able to impose that when possible NS enter and EW confirm on their separate phones.

[mycroft]

I have yet to meet the person who won't hand over the bridgemate. Try it with me, and I will not accept it until I can read it. They can sprain their wrist or they can put it on the table like a normal person. I bet they're the type that will also insist they put in your number on the first round?(1)

It is interesting we in the ACBL do not have a regulation (that I can see) about bridgemate use. I'm sure there were guidelines when they came out, and it doesn't seem to have become a problem, so...

Many Norths are definitely Lords(3) of the Table, that's why they come in an hour early to get a North-South(4).

Many others, however, are happy with "I need to be North, but you score, partner" - confuses the E-Ws a bit, but not much.

I remind people here that "none of my partners will let me score" - and for a very good reason! A little embarrassing as a director, and I am *very careful* when I put in an adjusted score, but there it is.

Oh, one thing - I will frequently, especially if the bridgemates start near the end of the first hand, put in my/partner's ACBL number, then enter the result for the first board as E/W - and tell North that *they* get to Accept it this time. That's always amusing :-).

(1) I have, however, met those who will "accept it for me"(2), and also some who won't let me see the scores later if I wanted to check for a rotate. Occasionally both. At least once, that triggered a director call, because I didn't trust that they put in what actually happened at the table...
(2) Apart from the "what happens if it doesn't start" issue (which was much much worse than with 'mates), this was the big reason the BridgePads died. The "accept" button was the "ok" button, and many many more Norths would just hit it twice and forego the E-W check. On purpose, or by accident? Who Knows™.
(3) As I have said before, in my experience a majority (65-ish%?) of these are actually LadiesooT.
(4) And they have their bags around, and they must put the score in their personal scorecard first(5), and then explain to partner what they did wrong, before finally deigning to get around to the bridgemate as a final ritual to be performed before the Changing of the Boards may commence. Oh, and *will do Everything short of bribery* to not have to get up and pass the boards. It's even more fun if they're table 1 and there's a walk to the last table.
(5) As a director, assuming they are behind (which they frequently are, because of the above), I will give them one opportunity: "bridgemate first, *then* your personal score". Next time I take it for a round. Frequently they catch up after that; not sure why.

[barmar]

Before electronic scoring devices became common, it was traditional for North to enter results on the traveller or pickup slip. When we switched to devices, that part of it didn't change.

[pescetom]

barmar, on 2024-December-18, 14:25, said:

Before electronic scoring devices became common, it was traditional for North to enter results on the traveller or pickup slip. When we switched to devices, that part of it didn't change.

For us it was rules not tradition, and usually South who entered results on the traveller, but otherwise the same.
Oddly enough, the people who tend to press "Accept" themselves without much real confrontation with opponents are often the same ones who often wrote a wrong score on the traveller by mistake (to their advantage more often that not).
Hence my desire that the confirm button appears only on the phone of EW, unless neither has the app active.

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2024-December-18, 15:45, said:

Hence my desire that the confirm button appears only on the phone of EW, unless neither has the app active.

That's smart, you are further ahead of us here in North America.

[sanst]

Although some players are certain that's in the Laws, it's not. Ask them to prove it, which they can't, but even then they're sure It Is A LAW! Only Law 8A2 states a responsibility for N, to move the completed boards to the proper table for the following round.
The RA is responsible for regulations about entering and checking the scores, but these must comply with Law 71A1:

Quote

The number of tricks won shall be agreed upon before all four hands have been returned to the board.

Oddly enough it doesn't state who should agree. Why not state that the players at the table should agree? I would also like to see a law that makes all players at the table in equal measure responsible for maintaining the proper conduct of play.

[barmar]

sanst, on 2024-December-19, 03:56, said:

Oddly enough it doesn't state who should agree. Why not state that the players at the table should agree?

I think it's obvious that it means all the players at the table, I don't think anyone has ever been confused by this.

The point of that law is to ensure that players do not shuffle their cards and return them to the board before this agreement, so we can reconstruct the play in case of a dispute.

[pescetom]

Quote

The number of tricks won shall be agreed upon before all four hands have been returned to the board.

sanst, on 2024-December-19, 03:56, said:

Oddly enough it doesn't state who should agree. Why not state that the players at the table should agree?

I would like it to state something like:
Before any hands are returned to the board, the number of tricks won shall be agreed upon and the declarer, contract, lead and score shall be recorded by NS and approved by EW. Should it subsequently become apparent that the information recorded and approved is incorrect in any way, the Director will assign an artificial adjusted score with both contestants directly at fault (see 12C2A).

[sanst]

 barmar, on 2024-December-19, 16:20, said:

I think it's obvious that it means all the players at the table, I don't think anyone has ever been confused by this.

The point of that law is to ensure that players do not shuffle their cards and return them to the board before this agreement, so we can reconstruct the play in case of a dispute.

Over here it's almost standard practice, certainly for the not so good players, for E, instead of checking the entered data, to push the approve button and call out the perdentage. I don't make myself very popular by asking what was entered and sometimes, if I'm in the mood, to the cancel the board in the BM and enter all the necessary data again. It helped in a few cases

[PeterAlan]

EBU has the following regulation for its competitions:

EBU White Book 1.6.7 Bridgemate protocol said:

The following is published in EBU competition programmes regarding the use of Bridgemates:

North (or South) is responsible for entering the contract and result into the
Bridgemate, and showing it to East (or West) to verify the entry before it is agreed
by pressing the ACCEPT button.

It is best to enter the contract, declarer and lead at the end of the auction – this
saves time, reduces the risk of entering the wrong board number, and ensures the
lead is fresh in your mind.

Results should be entered before the next board is played, East or West must be
allowed to accept the result, and both sides should have the opportunity to review
other scores.

It is an offence to attempt to access the TD screen or change a score in the
Bridgemate without calling the TD.

There is also this provision:

EBU White Book 3.3.10 Board unplayable by scoring against the wrong board number said:

Making a board unplayable by scoring on the electronic scorer (e.g. Bridgemate) against the
wrong board number and seeing the results from a board not yet played is scored AVE−/AVE−
– assuming both pairs had the chance to stop the error (N/S when scoring, E/W when agreeing
the score).