[jillybean]

This is a hand one the club players sent to me

---

With this hand you should reopen 1nt , showing a balanced 18-19hcp

[jdiana]

Good reminder. I have also seen beginners bid 2NT in that situation when, as you say, 1NT is the correct bid.

[jillybean]

You must know the hand, Jim

---

On this hand, North had a negative double, suggesting 4+hearts, 6-9 points, not enough values to bid at the 2 level.
If this is how the bidding had gone, 2nt is correct - showing 18-19
1nt here would show a minimum hand 12-14

The way I remembered this was, after 1D (1S) P (P)- South would not rebid 1nt with a minimum hand and she didn't open 1nt(15-17) , or 2nt(20-21) - so it's that undefined 18-19
After 1D (1S) X (P) 2NT It's a jump, partner didn't open 1nt or 2nt - it's the undefined 18-19.

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2024-October-28, 09:57, said:

On this hand, North had a negative double, suggesting 4+hearts, 6-9 points, not enough values to bid at the 2 level.
If this is how the bidding had gone, 2nt is correct - showing 18-19
1nt here would show a minimum hand 12-14

The way remembered this was, after 1D (1S) P - South would not rebid 1nt with a minimum hand and she didn't open 1nt(15-17) , or 2nt(20-21) - so it's that undefined 18-19
After 1D (1S) X 2NT It's a jump, partner didn't open 1nt or 2nt - it's the undefined 18-19.

You are clearly thinking that this hand should open 1♦ rather than 1♣ as indicated, I agree and let's simplify the problem

[jillybean]

 pescetom, on 2024-October-28, 16:07, said:

You are clearly thinking that this hand should open 1♦ rather than 1♣ as indicated, I agree and let's simplify the problem

ok 1♦

[apollo1201]

jillybean, on 2024-October-28, 09:57, said:

After 1D (1S) X 2NT It's a jump, partner didn't open 1nt or 2nt - it's the undefined 18-19.

No, with 18-19 you can bid 3NT as partner who Xed will not have a crappy 6 or 7, but a more positive hand.

The 2NT rebid is 1NT strength with unsuitable pattern, so likely a sg H, and S well stopped. 4153, 3163 with so-so D suit, etc.

[jillybean]

apollo1201, on 2024-October-29, 02:24, said:

No, with 18-19 you can bid 3NT as partner who Xed will not have a crappy 6 or 7, but a more positive hand.

The 2NT rebid is 1NT strength with unsuitable pattern, so likely a sg H, and S well stopped. 4153, 3163 with so-so D suit, etc.

Not in my partnerships, our negative doubles at the 1 level can be a quite crappy 6 or 7 count. 2nt keeps partner in the auction, if he passes 2nt, I respect his judgement. Or we talk about it later

Your 2nt rebid description appears unsuitable for the N/B forum?

Note there is another pass in the auction 1D (1S) X (P) 2NT

[mw64ahw]

jillybean, on 2024-October-29, 06:25, said:

Not in my partnerships, our negative doubles at the 1 level can be a quite crappy 6 or 7 count. 2nt keeps partner in the auction, if he passes 2nt, I respect his judgement. Or we talk about it later

Your 2nt rebid description appears unsuitable for the N/B forum?

Note there is another pass in the auction 1D (1S) X (P) 2NT

Scrappy 6/7 doubles probably aren't what's taught to N/Bs.
I'd happily bid 3N with South's hand after the X

[helene_t]

After any positive response, including a negative double, 2nt shows 18-19 and 3nt shows a one-suiter too strong for a 3♦ rebid.

Whether partner's negative double promises 5,6,7 or 8 points doesn't matter. Opener just describes their hand.

[pescetom]

helene_t, on 2024-October-29, 07:16, said:

After any positive response, including a negative double, 2nt shows 18-19 and 3nt shows a one-suiter too strong for a 3♦ rebid.

For me 2NT shows 18-19 and 3NT is to play, quite possibly speculative based on a spades stop and long diamonds.
Probably more suitable for N/B, at least.

[helene_t]

But "to play" is a violation of captainship, opener's rebids need to be descriptive. It could be different opposite a passed hand, I suppose.

[pescetom]

helene_t, on 2024-October-29, 11:50, said:

But "to play" is a violation of captainship, opener's rebids need to be descriptive. It could be different opposite a passed hand, I suppose.

I hear you, although a negative double is tendentially two-suited and limited in my book.
After 1♦ (1♠) X (P) how would you bid ♠Kx ♥xxx ♦AKQxxxx ♣x ?

[mike777]

Lots of choices:
2S or 2D or 3D or ?

[apollo1201]

[quote name='jillybean' timestamp='1730204745' post='1069421']

Your 2nt rebid description appears unsuitable for the N/B forum?

[/]

Haha maybe. It still shows that being on the same wavelength as partner and being able to add up points across the table are important!!

I also kept in the dark the how to find back 5-3 H fits in case responder has 5 and not enough to bid 2H. Can get murky even for non NB!

[helene_t]

pescetom, on 2024-October-29, 13:22, said:

After 1♦ (1♠) X (P) how would you bid ♠Kx ♥xxx ♦AKQxxxx ♣x ?

Good question. I suck at hand evaluation so don't take my advice
I think 3♦ is adequate, p can still ask for a spade stopper.

[helene_t]

Or maybe this hands rebids 3NT, and a stronger hand goes through 2♠? But if we think we might want to stop in 3♦ with this hand, it is better to do it the opposite way:
1NT: 12-14 bal, does not promise a stopper
2♣: normal, 4144 12-14 bids either this or 1nt according to taste
2♦: normal, 5+ or 6+ according to taste
2♥: normal, 3+ or 4 according to taste
2♠: solid diamonds, maybe also some strong hands such as 4144 GF or one-suited non-solid? 3♣ can now ask for a spade stopper
2NT: 18-19 bal, does not promise a stopper
3♣: normal GF. If you want this to be 16-17, the GF hands go through 2♠
3♦: normal non-solid
3♥: normal
3♠: splinter?
3NT: solid with black suit stoppers, max two hearts in principle
4anything: GF with heart support

But maybe it is more practical to use 2♠ for invites with hearts fit, those are frequent and 2♠ leaves room for game tries.