[tgphelps]

I was just reading the article on strong 2C opening bids on bridgebum.com (https://www.bridgebu...m/strong_2c.php). I presume this is a quite reputable site for bridge information, but please tell me if you think otherwise. I was reading the section on bidding after responder bids 2NT to show 8+ points and a balanced hand. It says, quote:

If responder bids 2NT to show 8+ points and a balanced hand, then the partnership's no-trump response system is on: Stayman, Jacoby Transfers, etc. Opener must bid accordingly, as if responder is the one who opened no-trumps.


I'm not an experienced play, but why the heck would we ever want the strong 2C opener to transfer? That exposes the strong hand, and lets the opening lead come through it. Sounds crazy to me.

Please enlighten me on this point.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

#1 simplicity, if you play a system after 1NT / 2NT openings, reusing it, reduces memory load, and avoids issues.
2C openings are rare, seq. after a 2C opening will come up seldom.
#2 making the strong hand declarer is only one benefits of playing xfer, and the least relevant, the xfer allowes
the partner of the balanced hand to clarify its shape, 1-suited or 2-suited, giving the bal. hand the best option
to see, if the values fit

#3 If you dont open regular 2C with 2-suited hands, you can make the default rebid basically matadory.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: I would open

♠AKQJ987
♥AKT
♦653
♣—

with 1S, not with 2♣, this allowes for easier detection of wasted club values.

[mw64ahw]

P_Marlowe, on 2024-August-13, 08:36, said:

Hi,

#1 simplicity, if you play a system after 1NT / 2NT openings, reusing it, reduces memory load, and avoids issues.
2C openings are rare, seq. after a 2C opening will come up seldom.
#2 making the strong hand declarer is only one benefits of playing xfer, and the least relevant, the xfer allowes
the partner of the balanced hand to clarify its shape, 1-suited or 2-suited, giving the bal. hand the best option
to see, if the values fit

#3 If you dont open regular 2C with 2-suited hands, you can make the default rebid basically matadory.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: I would open

♠AKQJ987
♥AKT
♦653
♣—

with 1S, not with 2♣, this allowes for easier detection of wasted club values.

The example hand looks slamish and would suit a Namyats 4♦

[jdiana]

I can't put my finger on the source, but Mike Lawrence strongly disapproves of the 2NT response to a 2♣ opening. I was persuaded, so that bid basically doesn't exist for us.

There are lots of different structures for responding to 2♣ openings. I think this write-up by Karen Walker is pretty good. https://kwbridge.com/bb/b_2c.htm

[pescetom]

tgphelps, on 2024-August-13, 07:55, said:

I was just reading the article on strong 2C opening bids on bridgebum.com (https://www.bridgebu...m/strong_2c.php). I presume this is a quite reputable site for bridge information, but please tell me if you think otherwise. I was reading the section on bidding after responder bids 2NT to show 8+ points and a balanced hand. It says, quote:

If responder bids 2NT to show 8+ points and a balanced hand, then the partnership's no-trump response system is on: Stayman, Jacoby Transfers, etc. Opener must bid accordingly, as if responder is the one who opened no-trumps.


I'm not an experienced play, but why the heck would we ever want the strong 2C opener to transfer? That exposes the strong hand, and lets the opening lead come through it. Sounds crazy to me.

Please enlighten me on this point.

You are simply right, it is crazy.
Quantitative bidding can be done accurately by the responder if you have a sufficiently well defined NT ladder. Responding 2NT as a blunt quantitative 8+ at best wrongsides the right contract and at worst impedes finding it.
I strongly suggest redefining 2NT as some useful or at least memorable artificial bid: I play it as minors 5+5+.

[DavidKok]

These are excellent suggestions.

[Cyberyeti]

jdiana, on 2024-August-13, 09:39, said:

I can't put my finger on the source, but Mike Lawrence strongly disapproves of the 2NT response to a 2♣ opening. I was persuaded, so that bid basically doesn't exist for us.

There are lots of different structures for responding to 2♣ openings. I think this write-up by Karen Walker is pretty good. https://kwbridge.com/bb/b_2c.htm

We use the 2♣-2N response as positive balanced, but a little better than 8+, as we play it essentially forcing to 4N and slam invitational opposite a balanced 22-23. We then play 2♣-2N-3♣ as stayman.

[Stephen Tu]

Playing transfers after 2c-2nt (nat pos bal) would be extremely weird. Playing opener's 3c rebid as stayman (often not clubs, have to bid 4c or 3c-?-4c with real clubs) to find 4-4 major fits is more common.

[jdiana]

Cyberyeti, on 2024-August-13, 11:12, said:

We use the 2♣-2N response as positive balanced, but a little better than 8+, as we play it essentially forcing to 4N and slam invitational opposite a balanced 22-23. We then play 2♣-2N-3♣ as stayman.

That makes sense. There are certainly other uses for the 2NT response. We play 2♥ as a bust, so we use 2♠ to show a positive heart response and 2NT to show a positive spade response. I just meant that ML hates (as I recall) 2NT to show a balanced 8+ points; that bid DNE for us. We just bid 2♦ with that hand.

[pescetom]

DavidKok, on 2024-August-13, 10:52, said:

There is a lot of confusion surrounding the strong 2♣ opening, and if you are interested I'd be happy to discuss it in more detail. Marlowe already answered your question in full, while the other comments are in my opinion less accurate.

If you think my comment (which offered precise arguments) is less than accurate, I would prefer you to confute it rather than merely posturing.

[DavidKok]

You are right, I'm sorry for my previous suggestion. I have edited my comment to reflect my change of mind.

[pescetom]

DavidKok, on 2024-August-13, 14:02, said:

You are right, I'm sorry for my previous suggestion. I have edited my comment to reflect my change of mind.

No problem, it's easy to miss a post or misread it. I just thought that to N/B it was unexpected (and therefore doubly important to realize) that a mainstream agreement is actually no good, and I expected you would be in agreement. Of course there are issues about whether and how Responder to 2♣ should indicate a bust, but I think it is clear by now that 2NT = stuff is not the way to go.

[johnu]

Stephen Tu, on 2024-August-13, 11:30, said:

Playing transfers after 2c-2nt (nat pos bal) would be extremely weird. Playing opener's 3c rebid as stayman (often not clubs, have to bid 4c or 3c-?-4c with real clubs) to find 4-4 major fits is more common.

Borrowing a little bit from the original puppet Stayman, you could play these responses to 3♣

3♦ - No 4 card major
3♥ - 4 spades
3♠ - 4 hearts
3NT - Both majors

This makes the stronger hand declarer for major suit fits.

After a 3♦ response, 2♣ opener can bid 3M as a Smolen type bid.