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Any Windows/PC geeks out there?

#1 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2024-May-25, 14:36

Way OT from bridge, but today Microsoft broke the news to me that Windows 10 support will cease in October 2025 and that my PC (purchased with the bizarre but fast and sorely missed Windows 8.1 ten years ago) is deemed incompatible with Windows 11.
I ran their "PC Health Check App" which solemnly warned that TPM 2.0 must be supported and enabled (not looked into that yet) and sentenced that my i5-33174 CPU @ 1.70 GHz is "not supported for Windows 11".
The requirements link provided alongside said "> 1 GHz and at least 2 cores", which my CPU fully meets.
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#2 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2024-May-25, 16:00

The i5-3317u is a 3rd generation i series Intel CPU (first number after i5 is the generation). You have to have at least an 8th gen CPU to be Windows 11 compatible according to Microsoft. Intel is currently at the 14th gen CPU. You have lots of company, the CPU on my desktop is a 5th gen, and so is my laptop.

TPM 2.0 is related to the motherboard and most motherboards had this by mid 2016 or thereabouts. You can't just replace the CPU because newer CPU's only run on newer motherboards, may be backwards compatible for a gen or two or three. Some laptops have CPUs that are soldered into place, and that takes a specialist to change CPUs.

If your motherboard did have TPM 2.0, you might be able to just replace the CPU to an 8th gen CPU if you could find one, and if it is compatible with your motherboard which may or may not be the case.
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#3 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2024-May-25, 19:18

View Postjohnu, on 2024-May-25, 16:00, said:

You have lots of company, the CPU on my desktop is a 5th gen, and so is my laptop.

This is probably the key part. October 2025 is still a while away, and there may well be sufficient outrage that the date will get pushed back further.
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#4 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2024-May-27, 15:57

placeholder

View Postjohnu, on 2024-May-25, 16:00, said:

The i5-3317u is a 3rd generation i series Intel CPU (first number after i5 is the generation). You have to have at least an 8th gen CPU to be Windows 11 compatible according to Microsoft. Intel is currently at the 14th gen CPU. You have lots of company, the CPU on my desktop is a 5th gen, and so is my laptop.

TPM 2.0 is related to the motherboard and most motherboards had this by mid 2016 or thereabouts. You can't just replace the CPU because newer CPU's only run on newer motherboards, may be backwards compatible for a gen or two or three. Some laptops have CPUs that are soldered into place, and that takes a specialist to change CPUs.

If your motherboard did have TPM 2.0, you might be able to just replace the CPU to an 8th gen CPU if you could find one, and if it is compatible with your motherboard which may or may not be the case.

Thanks. Where did you get the >8th gen info from? They only mentioned frequency and cores in the link provided to me.
I haven't checked TMP 2.0 yet, but based on age I doubt it was present. The compatibility program only flagged it as a warning (unlike the CPU) if that means anything.

View Postsmerriman, on 2024-May-25, 19:18, said:

This is probably the key part. October 2025 is still a while away, and there may well be sufficient outrage that the date will get pushed back further.

Hmm. MS in my experience have a fuzzy idea (at best) of their responsibilities and are indifferent to customer outrage. Some of us remember the way MS behaved with MS-DOS and OS-2 and the unstable Windows 3.1 and the slow Windows 2000. They even forced people to pay to migrate from the disgraceful Windows Visa (which they wisely and rapidly gave up supporting) to Windows 7. All while downplaying and failing to build on the only two versions that actually performed, XP and 8.1.
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#5 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2024-May-27, 16:36

Windows Mastercard, that would be?

For those forced into W11 (minus any of this CopIlot or Recall [expletive]), "explorerpatcher" is your friend. Even in W10, it can help return your Redmondware to how you actually liked it.

(I am not a MS geek, except as forced. But like my favourite bridge systems, I don't wish my preferred computer setup on anybody else; I know it is best *for me* (and near nobody else).
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#6 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2024-May-28, 01:28

View Postpescetom, on 2024-May-27, 15:57, said:

Thanks. Where did you get the >8th gen info from? They only mentioned frequency and cores in the link provided to me.
I haven't checked TMP 2.0 yet, but based on age I doubt it was present. The compatibility program only flagged it as a warning (unlike the CPU) if that means anything.

Link to Microsoft Windows 11 CPUs

Actually, looks like Microsoft threw a bone to those who bought the top of the line i9 since they are supporting 7th gen i9's. I've heard unverified rumors that Microsoft could possibly lower their requirements a little, but those are just rumors.
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#7 User is offline   StevenG 

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Posted 2024-May-28, 01:35

View Postpescetom, on 2024-May-27, 15:57, said:

I haven't checked TMP 2.0 yet, but based on age I doubt it was present. The compatibility program only flagged it as a warning (unlike the CPU) if that means anything.

TPM 2.0 is essential. My reasonably modern desktop was failing on it. I eventually realised that although the motherboard was fine, the BIOS was out of date. Asus allowed me to upgrade to the latest version and the computer now passes all the tests (but I'm still not going to download Windows 11 until I have to). At ten years old, I don't see that as being a solution for your laptop, unfortunately.

I stuck with Windows XP long after support stopped, and never came to any harm.
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#8 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2024-May-28, 20:50

I am getting tired of Microsoft. Can anyone give advice about changing OS on an older PC. We are running windows 10 now on both but I don't want to go to 11. I've read about Linux and also Chrome but I'm not sophisticated at all when it comes to computing. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
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#9 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2024-May-29, 03:17

Hi Winston,

It is getting increasingly easy to put Linux on your PC.

You go to one of the sites that allow you to download a linux image and a program that creates a bootable USB drive. For example, for Ubuntu it is explained here: https://ubuntu.com/t...ktop#1-overview

You then run in the program that creates a bootable USB drive from your image. In the above tutorial they suggest balenaEtcher

Once you have your bootable USB drive, you restart your computer with the bootable USB drive sticked into a USB port. Booting from the USB drive might happen automatically, or you may have to keep F2 pressed down during startup or something like that. If you are unsure how to boot, you can tell me what kind of computer you have and I can find out.

Once booted, you get the option to try Ubuntu out or to install it straight away. I suggest you first try it out, running it only from the USB disk without putting it on the hardisk. Once you are happy with Ubuntu you can install it. Here, you will have the option to preserve Windows so that you will get dual boot. I usually do that as there may be occasions where you have to run a windows program. That way, the harddisk will be split in two partitions, one for windows and one for Ubuntu. At start up, you will be given the choice. When running Ubuntu, you can access documents, pictures etc from the Windows partition, but running Windows programs usually doesn't work, at least not smoothly. (I think: it's long time ago I tried it, it may have become more smooth, or less smooth, in the meantime).

If you choose to remove Windows and let Ubuntu take the whole disk, make sure you have backupped all documents etc from Windows that you still want to use under Ubuntu. You can then copy those file back to the harddisk afterwards.
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#10 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2024-May-29, 09:01

View Postjohnu, on 2024-May-25, 16:00, said:

The i5-3317u is a 3rd generation i series Intel CPU (first number after i5 is the generation). You have to have at least an 8th gen CPU to be Windows 11 compatible according to Microsoft. Intel is currently at the 14th gen CPU. You have lots of company, the CPU on my desktop is a 5th gen, and so is my laptop.

You can't just replace the CPU because newer CPU's only run on newer motherboards, may be backwards compatible for a gen or two or three. Some laptops have CPUs that are soldered into place, and that takes a specialist to change CPUs.

If your motherboard did have TPM 2.0, you might be able to just replace the CPU to an 8th gen CPU if you could find one, and if it is compatible with your motherboard which may or may not be the case.


Maybe I can take advantage of this to ask a few questions. I undesrand virtually nothing of what you say. Eg "i5-3317u is a 3rd generation i series Intel CPU" means nothing to me.

But

Maybe I can learn smothing.

How do I find out whether my computer has a i5-3317u is a 3rd generation i series Intel CPU or some variant of that?


Also, I guess I should be able to make something out of "i5-3317u is a 3rd generation i series Intel CPU" Any advice?


Ten or fifteen year ago I often helped other people of my age with computer issues that I understood and they didn't. But now when I read this stuff I feel I am on a different planet. There must be a good place to go to learn some of this.
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#11 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2024-May-29, 09:39

Kenberg: Settings/system will get you your CPU etc. i5-3317 is:
  • i: an i-series Intel CPU
  • 5-: midrange in that generation (i3 is low-end, i7 is high-end, i9 exists, but we won't get one)
  • 3: third generation (new ones are 14xxx - 14th generation. So it's at least 10 years old)
  • 317: straight model number. There are codes in there, but basically: "higher is more powerful within that level and gen"
  • u: specialty information. U in this case means "ultra-low-power", almost certainly laptop, very likely thin- or fanless laptop.


More detail (from 9th-gen) available at this MakeUseOf link or I'm sure at wikipedia or other places (this is the one I found for confirmation of my knowledge).

Winston: There are lots of "intro-to-linux" and "windows look-and-feel" distributions out there, and I'd go looking for one of those to start. Helene has the basic path on how to install, but deciding *what* to install is a big thing. Ubuntu has a great install base and community, but learning any of the window managers (GNOME by default, but there are KDE and MATE (windows-like) variants) will be a curve in addition to "what is my X-equivalent". Many have suggested Linux Mint as a good "low-admin" start into Linux (and it also has a MATE flavour).

I *strongly* duplicate her "build a live-boot USB, and use it in live mode for a while" strategy (or "I have an old computer I can sacrifice to single-boot linux" strategy). Installing dual-boot isn't trivial (although most user-friendly distros' installers make it "as easy as possible"), and you don't want to get it wrong. The first step in Linux is "learn how to do what you did in Windows", and maybe some "here's how to do simple management". The second step is "work with Linux enough to get an understanding of how we think" - which means that when you do go to "install dual-boot, repartition the drives, decide on a window manager (or install 4 or 5 and try them out), fix whatever didn't install right,..." you'll at least understand the answers given to you (or even the questions!) It isn't hard, but there is a bit of "first time playing Precision" to deal with. And doing it all from a "Okay, my brain is full, reboot and get back to what I know" or "argh, I have to do this *right now*, don't have time to learn how to do it in linux, reboot and do it the normal way" world - and a "oh, I did something strange, I don't know how to get back to what I had" (reboot into live, and everything's back to normal. In worst case, reimage the live-boot, and everything's back to normal) is just more comfortable (if slow. remember, you're running the OS off a *flash drive*).

The added benefit of "learning with a live USB" is that once you are comfortable, you can reconfigure the live USB with on-board storage, and just carry it around with you - any computer you can "boot from USB" is now "your comfortable environment".
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#12 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2024-May-29, 11:01

View Postmycroft, on 2024-May-29, 09:39, said:

Kenberg: Settings/system will get you your CPU etc. i5-3317 is:[list][*]i: an i-series Intel CPU
[*]5-: midrange in that generation (i3 is low-end, i7 is high-end, i9 exists, but we won't get one)
[*]3: third generation (new ones are 14xxx - 14th generation. So it's at least 10 years old)
[*]317: straight model number. There are codes in there, but basically: "higher is more powerful within that level and gen"
[*]u: specialty information. U in this case means "ultra-low-power", almost certainly laptop, very likely thin- or fanless laptop.[/u]

More detail (from 9th-gen) available at this MakeUseOf link or I'm sure at wikipedia or other places (this is the one I found for confirmation of my knowledge).

Winston: There are lots of "intro-to-linux" and "windows look-and-feel" distributions out there, and I'd go looking for one of those to start. Helene has the basic path on how to install, but deciding *what* to install is a big thing. Ubuntu has a great install base and community, but learning any of the window managers (GNOME by default, but there are KDE and MATE (windows-like) variants) will be a curve in addition to "what is my X-equivalent". Many have suggested Linux Mint as a good "low-admin" start into Linux (and it also has a MATE flavour).

I *strongly* duplicate her "build a live-boot USB, and use it in live mode for a while" strategy (or "I have an old computer I can sacrifice to single-boot linux" strategy). Installing dual-boot isn't trivial (although most user-friendly distros' installers make it "as easy as possible"), and you don't want to get it wrong. The first step in Linux is "learn how to do what you did in Windows", and maybe some "here's how to do simple management". The second step is "work with Linux enough to get an understanding of how we think" - which means that when you do go to "install dual-boot, repartition the drives, decide on a window manager (or install 4 or 5 and try them out), fix whatever didn't install right,..." you'll at least understand the answers given to you (or even the questions!) It isn't hard, but there is a bit of "first time playing Precision" to deal with. And doing it all from a "Okay, my brain is full, reboot and get back to what I know" or "argh, I have to do this *right now*, don't have time to learn how to do it in linux, reboot and do it the normal way" world - and a "oh, I did something strange, I don't know how to get back to what I had" (reboot into live, and everything's back to normal. In worst case, reimage the live-boot, and everything's back to normal) is just more comfortable (if slow. remember, you're running the OS off a *flash drive*).

The added benefit of "learning with a live USB" is that once you are comfortable, you can reconfigure the live USB with on-board storage, and just carry it around with you - any computer you can "boot from USB" is now "your comfortable environment".




It says:

Processor Intel® Core™ i7-6700 CPU @ 3.40GHz 3.41 GHz

I have had this computer for several years so I am prepared to hear that the above numbers mean I am out of date. Too old to handle Windws 11?

Installed RAM is 16 GB

I am long ago retired, I do not do much exciting online but I do wish to keep up with the the evoling world, as confusing as it sometimes is, So I will buy a new computer if need be but really right now it all seems to be working or at least working well enough for my needs.
Ken
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#13 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2024-May-29, 11:26

If the computer does what you want, and is safe, then it's good enough.

That looks like a high-end 7th gen CPU. Not good enough for Win11, 7 years old, but a box with serious oomph that should do whatever you want it to do.

Once MS deprecates Win10, then you have issues, because they'll stop providing security updates (unless you're a corporate client with a special license or the DoD). And then taking it online is dangerous. But that's a few years yet, and there will be linux win-10-alikes for you to step into (and they might be even less user-hostile than they are now).

I hesitate to look at what the computer I'm writing this one runs (i5-3570). However, it runs ubuntu latest, with i3wm and a *lot* of customizations...
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#14 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2024-May-29, 14:24

View Posthelene_t, on 2024-May-29, 03:17, said:

Hi Winston,

It is getting increasingly easy to put Linux on your PC.

You go to one of the sites that allow you to download a linux image and a program that creates a bootable USB drive. For example, for Ubuntu it is explained here: https://ubuntu.com/t...ktop#1-overview

You then run in the program that creates a bootable USB drive from your image. In the above tutorial they suggest balenaEtcher

Once you have your bootable USB drive, you restart your computer with the bootable USB drive sticked into a USB port. Booting from the USB drive might happen automatically, or you may have to keep F2 pressed down during startup or something like that. If you are unsure how to boot, you can tell me what kind of computer you have and I can find out.

Once booted, you get the option to try Ubuntu out or to install it straight away. I suggest you first try it out, running it only from the USB disk without putting it on the hardisk. Once you are happy with Ubuntu you can install it. Here, you will have the option to preserve Windows so that you will get dual boot. I usually do that as there may be occasions where you have to run a windows program. That way, the harddisk will be split in two partitions, one for windows and one for Ubuntu. At start up, you will be given the choice. When running Ubuntu, you can access documents, pictures etc from the Windows partition, but running Windows programs usually doesn't work, at least not smoothly. (I think: it's long time ago I tried it, it may have become more smooth, or less smooth, in the meantime).

If you choose to remove Windows and let Ubuntu take the whole disk, make sure you have backupped all documents etc from Windows that you still want to use under Ubuntu. You can then copy those file back to the harddisk afterwards.

Thank you so very much, Helene. On a side note, how the heck are you? Hope things are going good for you. Winston
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#15 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2024-May-29, 14:27

View Postmycroft, on 2024-May-29, 09:39, said:

Kenberg: Settings/system will get you your CPU etc. i5-3317 is:[list][*]i: an i-series Intel CPU
[*]5-: midrange in that generation (i3 is low-end, i7 is high-end, i9 exists, but we won't get one)
[*]3: third generation (new ones are 14xxx - 14th generation. So it's at least 10 years old)
[*]317: straight model number. There are codes in there, but basically: "higher is more powerful within that level and gen"
[*]u: specialty information. U in this case means "ultra-low-power", almost certainly laptop, very likely thin- or fanless laptop.[/u]

More detail (from 9th-gen) available at this MakeUseOf link or I'm sure at wikipedia or other places (this is the one I found for confirmation of my knowledge).

Winston: There are lots of "intro-to-linux" and "windows look-and-feel" distributions out there, and I'd go looking for one of those to start. Helene has the basic path on how to install, but deciding *what* to install is a big thing. Ubuntu has a great install base and community, but learning any of the window managers (GNOME by default, but there are KDE and MATE (windows-like) variants) will be a curve in addition to "what is my X-equivalent". Many have suggested Linux Mint as a good "low-admin" start into Linux (and it also has a MATE flavour).

I *strongly* duplicate her "build a live-boot USB, and use it in live mode for a while" strategy (or "I have an old computer I can sacrifice to single-boot linux" strategy). Installing dual-boot isn't trivial (although most user-friendly distros' installers make it "as easy as possible"), and you don't want to get it wrong. The first step in Linux is "learn how to do what you did in Windows", and maybe some "here's how to do simple management". The second step is "work with Linux enough to get an understanding of how we think" - which means that when you do go to "install dual-boot, repartition the drives, decide on a window manager (or install 4 or 5 and try them out), fix whatever didn't install right,..." you'll at least understand the answers given to you (or even the questions!) It isn't hard, but there is a bit of "first time playing Precision" to deal with. And doing it all from a "Okay, my brain is full, reboot and get back to what I know" or "argh, I have to do this *right now*, don't have time to learn how to do it in linux, reboot and do it the normal way" world - and a "oh, I did something strange, I don't know how to get back to what I had" (reboot into live, and everything's back to normal. In worst case, reimage the live-boot, and everything's back to normal) is just more comfortable (if slow. remember, you're running the OS off a *flash drive*).

The added benefit of "learning with a live USB" is that once you are comfortable, you can reconfigure the live USB with on-board storage, and just carry it around with you - any computer you can "boot from USB" is now "your comfortable environment".


Excellent advice and thank you for sharing your knowledge. Winston
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#16 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2024-May-30, 15:06

Thanks to those who replied and I learned a lot, glad that the thread turned out to be useful to others too.

So it looks like I lose Windows support next autumn. I don't feel I owe MS another opportunity to rip me off with a functional PC, and on reflection I do have the knowledge to at least give Ubuntu a try.

If anyone has the perspective to evaluate alternatives (such as Chromebook) from my point of view I would be grateful. I already have a decent Android tablet which is great for watching streaming or using mainstream commercial apps, so no need for portability or great video.
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#17 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2024-May-30, 15:44

Chromebook - you want something that accesses the web, including for writing documents, storing files and watching movies.

Dual-boot - if your PC has another drive, one of the nice things about linux is that the "core" is really small; and "home" and all your storage can be partitioned on another drive (I have about 6 on this thing, but several are RAIDed). And you can mount your Windows drive as well, to get access to the files you currently have (but not your applications, unless they are WINEable). But that isn't "linux 101" stuff; still try it with a live USB for a while, and then ask for (local) help.
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