Acol Daylong - Feedback thread Feedback and comments on argine and the acol system it plays
#1
Posted 2022-November-30, 04:46
Please post comments about the free acol daylong and the robots used in it (Argine).
Same as with GIB reports, it helps to include the actual hand, or at least mention the board number and the daylong date.
#2
Posted 2022-November-30, 08:50
Generally, the Acolist robots bid very well.
A few things that would be nice to clarify in the system notes:
- what are the rules for which of two (or three) four-card suits to open?
- to what extend to we play Walsh style (Acolists tend to rebid Walsh style, of course if they open a major with 4M4m32 it is moot).
- FSF is game forcing (I suppose that is what is meant by "making the auction forcing".
- The 1NT rebid is 15-17 (should be obvious, maybe, but isn't to British club players )
- Count signals are high=even
#3
Posted 2022-November-30, 09:42
That would allow people to continue to create a topic for each bug/discussion as has always been done, rather than rolling them all into one noisy cauldron.
#4
Posted 2022-November-30, 11:01
#5
Posted 2022-November-30, 15:58
diana_eva, on 2022-November-30, 11:01, said:
If Argine is unlikely to be used in future for other bidding systems (really? why?) then I can see a case, but even then I would have thought is it useful to BBO to distinguish discussions about the Acol Daylong format and geographic availability from discussion of the related robot problems and to keep each Argine/Acol problem in a specific topic to identify consistency and gravity, as we have always done with GiB and 2/1. But up to you, of course.
#6
Posted 2022-November-30, 16:37
pescetom, on 2022-November-30, 09:42, said:
That would allow people to continue to create a topic for each bug/discussion as has always been done, rather than rolling them all into one noisy cauldron.
I agree. GiB has enough to answer for itself without having to worry about Argine
Plus it might be clearer to new and less informed players that there are two different bots and styles of play
#7
Posted 2022-November-30, 17:22
#8
Posted 2022-December-02, 13:50
My post the other day had it bypassing all cuebids and Blackwood to leap to slam with a missing control and no clue about the number of keycards (* edit - sorry aces; the lack of keycard is another giant disadvantage). I never linked to the hand, so here it is in full. I managed to make it, but we could easily have been off two diamonds, let alone numerous other possibilities..
Today I tried a splinter.. (I was South):
Perhaps optimistic on my end, but 5♠?? With KQxx in their suit and four points outside? A 1.5% board dropped my average down to 70% (The field appears very weak at the moment.)
Note the really bizarre diamond play by the robots too. GIB sees letting the J hold as *comfortably* the best play at MPs (and IMPs too); can't see any excuse for overtaking.
steve2005, on 2022-November-30, 17:22, said:
Nope. Just GB,IE,AU,NZ.
#9
Posted 2022-December-04, 02:23
After 5 tricks, North has just shown out on the second trump. The hand is an open book, as I'm guaranteed the SK and DA for the opening bid. West has a trivial 10 tricks (eg duck a spade, ruff the diamond high, and take the marked finesse).
Instead, West plays trump Ace and another, guaranteeing down 1.
#10
Posted 2022-December-04, 02:40
Many things puzzle me but the biggest one concerns the opening bid.
Playing 4 card majors and a 1NT range of 12-14, how do you decide when to open a balanced - or semi-balanced hand - 1X or 1NT?
As in 12-14 - 4333 or 4342 - 1S or 1NT?
#11
Posted 2022-December-04, 02:42
#12
Posted 2022-December-04, 03:00
2h
Should show 6 hearts, argine explains it as 5+. Whether it would actually ever bid 2h on a 5card suit I don't know.
#13
Posted 2022-December-04, 06:08
#15
Posted 2022-December-04, 10:38
smerriman, on 2022-December-02, 13:50, said:
My post the other day had it bypassing all cuebids and Blackwood to leap to slam with a missing control and no clue about the number of keycards (* edit - sorry aces; the lack of keycard is another giant disadvantage). I never linked to the hand, so here it is in full. I managed to make it, but we could easily have been off two diamonds, let alone numerous other possibilities..
If the fourth suit is now forcing to game in Acol then I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a 2NT response shows 4 card fit
The explanations look strange, all the same: a game force with minimum 10 HCP and a 3NT rebid which promises exactly 4 card hearts when the hand is 5 card.
#16
Posted 2022-December-05, 03:29
diana_eva, on 2022-December-04, 07:13, said:
https://tinyurl.com/2msjttbs
One of the problems was that the 5♣ bid was meant as sign-off but interpretted as an answer to Blackwood.
#17
Posted 2022-December-05, 18:22
Very impressed with the way it carefully assesses keycards before determining the optimal contract.
I wasn't alone 48 players in 6D-1 or 6S-1.
A few craftier souls cottoned on to the better approach:
#18
Posted 2022-December-05, 23:49
Double is "6+ HCP, takeout"
2N is "15-19 HCP, game forcing"
My other options were to show a 4 card major, or rebid 2♦, which showed 12-14..
This is the second negative double issue I've seen, with the other being that 1♥ (1♠) x showed 10+ points and said nothing about suits.
Also, I only just noticed a hand thepossum posted in the other thread. It was edited in later, so others might have missed it too. Well worth looking at, because it is truly insane
#19
Posted 2022-December-06, 01:52
"I found them a vast improvement on the usual ones. I could have done with the information they give when making a bid on the screen for much longer. I tried to bid using their system as I looked at my options of rebid which weren't always what was in my head to bid. Sometimes their system worked but not always. That may have been my error in how I played the hands."
#20
Posted 2022-December-06, 15:11
smerriman, on 2022-December-05, 23:49, said:
I thought this one looked relatively comprehensible: the human should have had 6+ to intervene, Argine just followed the Acol principle of bidding to the length of fit