[Shugart23]

It's been almost 5 years since I've played, and I cannot recall if XYZ is off if partner is a passed hand, either in first or 3rd seat. Thank you for any comments on this topic to help jog my memory

[apollo1201]

A passed hand can hardly GF at its second turn unless a very distributional hand with a fit in openers 2nd suit that they dare not open first?
So 2D relay is probably very rare but the 2C invite can work

[pescetom]

We play that XYZ is still on, I think it still delivers better than natural.
I guess that a really committed partnership should discuss whether game forcing jumps and the 2NT puppet are still on too, but we just play that the whole thing is still there.

[mikeh]

We don’t pay it by a passed hand. We open aggressively so responder cannot have a gf…with a hand that thinks it can make game opposite partner’s second bid, we’ll almost always be able to do something like splinter (we have to have shape and a fit for a passed hand to game force ) or jump to game.

One useful wrinkle when partner has opened a diamond….say (ignoring the opps) P 1D 1M 1N….use 2C to puppet to 2D, to play or make an invite, and use 2D to say ‘I have 5 of my major plus a diamond fit…if you have 3 cards in my major, bid my major, otherwise pass’. If one bids 2C, forcing 2D, then passes, one only has a 4 card major. This only works because 2D can’t be artificial as a passed hand.

[pescetom]

mikeh, on 2024-May-03, 13:14, said:

We don’t pay it by a passed hand. We open aggressively so responder cannot have a gf…with a hand that thinks it can make game opposite partner’s second bid, we’ll almost always be able to do something like splinter (we have to have shape and a fit for a passed hand to game force ) or jump to game.

One useful wrinkle when partner has opened a diamond….say (ignoring the opps) P 1D 1M 1N….use 2C to puppet to 2D, to play or make an invite, and use 2D to say ‘I have 5 of my major plus a diamond fit…if you have 3 cards in my major, bid my major, otherwise pass’. If one bids 2C, forcing 2D, then passes, one only has a 4 card major. This only works because 2D can’t be artificial as a passed hand.

Useful detail, thanks.
Close to but better defined than what we actually play (and I hope would explain) while considering XYX still "on"... the 2C puppet is still in place, 2D is still direction seeking with a probable 5cM, but no longer GF and likely to have secondary support for partner's diamonds.

[mycroft]

I play XYZ on by a passed hand - in my weak NT partnership.

Because sure and often can I have a game force as a passed hand opposite a 15-17 NT.

But that's a special case.