[Gunnaduck]

This is an excellent way to introduce bridge much better than minibridge.
True it may cost a little money but that is only in the begining. Many of my
friends are now playing bridge thanks to the Topgame.

[smerriman]

Did you just create a new account to reply to your own thread, which allegedly referred to another poster's game but who also happens to be yourself? Your BW account got suspended for non-stop spam about this game; I think you've made your point already..

[pescetom]

 smerriman, on 2023-October-29, 13:47, said:

I think you've made your point already..

And had far too much rope.

[mga010]

Over the years, I have watched so many enthusiastic young and also elderly people starting with Bridge and giving up soon. Almost all like the game and are eager to learn. But most give up. The most important reason is that Bridge is not played in bars or families, only in clubs, and there only in tournaments. It is currently too competitive. When I was young, I was lucky to find a community of very good players, some of them later national champions, that kept the game going outside the club. But if that is not the case, only a few will really get hooked.

I thought the net might change this. But it doesn't. The BBO casual tables are simply too unfriendly to be inviting.

[Gunnaduck]

This is a excellent way to introduce bridge much better than minibridge. True it may cost a little money but that is only in the beginning. Many of my friends are now playing bridge thanks to the Topgame. Try it!

[carl3]

I have sent your/mine idea to the Austrilian Bridge Federation. They don't use minibridge so they may be interested. Hope they don't dismiss the idea without trying the game first. It is so easy to do that only thinking of the strange bidding. I was surprised myself when I found out how well the game worked.

[carl3]

 apollo1201, on 2023-October-10, 14:35, said:

It looks like a simplified version of minibridge

Or actually, the stage where the students don’t know yet scoring, game bonus, competing and sacrificing.

So a good exercice to count and practice game play with a reasonable target to achieve.

Find 2 youngsters. Don't say anything about bridge.Play "The TopGame" with coins. Then direct them to Bridge Winners and BBO.
Now you have done something not for me or staff3 but for BRIDGE. Mini Bridge is too dull (and takes too long to explain) to
save bridge and without the coins I do not think TG can do much either.

[carl3]

 apollo1201, on 2023-October-10, 14:35, said:

It looks like a simplified version of minibridge

Or actually, the stage where the students don’t know yet scoring, game bonus, competing and sacrificing.

So a good exercice to count and practice game play with a reasonable target to achieve.

Find 2 youngsters. Don't say anything about bridge.Play "The TopGame" with coins. Then direct them to Bridge Winners and BBO.
Now you have done something not for me or staff3 but for BRIDGE. Mini Bridge is too dull (and takes too long to explain) to
save bridge and without the coins I do not think TG can do much either.

[pescetom]

 carl3, on 2023-November-10, 04:40, said:

Find 2 youngsters. Don't say anything about bridge.Play "The TopGame" with coins. Then direct them to Bridge Winners and BBO.
Now you have done something not for me or staff3 but for BRIDGE. Mini Bridge is too dull (and takes too long to explain) to
save bridge and without the coins I do not think TG can do much either.

Find a reasonable idea that might even be your own.
Expound it on a bridge forum, then pretend you are someone else to expound it again.
If you get booted then go to another forum and repeat until...
Give it a rest please

[thepossum]

 mga010, on 2023-November-03, 01:57, said:

Over the years, I have watched so many enthusiastic young and also elderly people starting with Bridge and giving up soon. Almost all like the game and are eager to learn. But most give up. The most important reason is that Bridge is not played in bars or families, only in clubs, and there only in tournaments. It is currently too competitive. When I was young, I was lucky to find a community of very good players, some of them later national champions, that kept the game going outside the club. But if that is not the case, only a few will really get hooked.

I thought the net might change this. But it doesn't. The BBO casual tables are simply too unfriendly to be inviting.

This

I keep hoping to walk into a pub one day and seeing 3 fun friendly looking people with two packs of cards looking a bit lost

I considered trying to do it myself but thought the growth rate could be very slow

I have my own (very strong) views on Bridge (and the world) and where it all went wrong. Not boring you all again

And I believe someone already touched on the 2023 approach to everything - not sure if tongue in cheek or not

[AL78]

I think one of the issues with bridge is that it takes a long time for someone to learn it sufficiently well to be able to participate comfortably in a club duplicate movement. I don't mean just the technical side (i.e. bidding) but the pace of play and the rules. For a comparison, if you want to take up chess, you can learn the moves and value of the pieces and start playing, yes you will get hammered in a club environment but you can quickly get to a point where you can play a game.

At my club we have a teaching schedule where people interested in learning the game can take classes over two terms (around nine months in total) followed by playing in a non-duplicate more relaxed environment. There are follow on classes available to advance on the basics. I assist at giving help to those students at the informal bridge evening and it is apparent that after nine months of lessons they have learnt an estimated one quarter to one third of the bidding and even with that, they struggle to remember or apply what they have learnt to randomly dealt hands as opposed to themed practice hands. I often find it very difficult to near impossible to guide them on how to bid hands which involve fairly fundamental bidding principles which they haven't learnt yet, in fact it is impossible to teach them properly without doing a themed workshop. A classic example is competitive auctions and how to respond to overcalls with strength and support vs weakness and support, and how to judge how far to compete based on how well the two hands are fitting based on the auction. I do my best to explain the logic of the bidding rather than simply telling them what to bid but it is not easy. Occasionally they struggle to remember how to respond to partner's 1NT opening (12-14 where I live) which is one of the easiest starts to the auction.

I don't see an easy way around this especially as bridge tends to be taken up by older people who I am told take longer to learn new things, although I think some of that is belief influencing reality (i.e. if you believe you will struggle, it is more likely you will).

[pescetom]

 AL78, on 2023-November-17, 04:18, said:

I think one of the issues with bridge is that it takes a long time for someone to learn it sufficiently well to be able to participate comfortably in a club duplicate movement. I don't mean just the technical side (i.e. bidding) but the pace of play and the rules. For a comparison, if you want to take up chess, you can learn the moves and value of the pieces and start playing, yes you will get hammered in a club environment but you can quickly get to a point where you can play a game.

At my club we have a teaching schedule where people interested in learning the game can take classes over two terms (around nine months in total) followed by playing in a non-duplicate more relaxed environment. There are follow on classes available to advance on the basics. I assist at giving help to those students at the informal bridge evening and it is apparent that after nine months of lessons they have learnt an estimated one quarter to one third of the bidding and even with that, they struggle to remember or apply what they have learnt to randomly dealt hands as opposed to themed practice hands. I often find it very difficult to near impossible to guide them on how to bid hands which involve fairly fundamental bidding principles which they haven't learnt yet, in fact it is impossible to teach them properly without doing a themed workshop. A classic example is competitive auctions and how to respond to overcalls with strength and support vs weakness and support, and how to judge how far to compete based on how well the two hands are fitting based on the auction. I do my best to explain the logic of the bidding rather than simply telling them what to bid but it is not easy. Occasionally they struggle to remember how to respond to partner's 1NT opening (12-14 where I live) which is one of the easiest starts to the auction.

I don't see an easy way around this especially as bridge tends to be taken up by older people who I am told take longer to learn new things, although I think some of that is belief influencing reality (i.e. if you believe you will struggle, it is more likely you will).

Like you (I gather) I mentor the students in initial open play rather than teaching in a classroom. I find this fun and rewarding, it would be a lot tougher to be responsible for the day to day grind of teaching. Maybe I'm a bit more cynical or realistic than you, but I actually consider it a useful litmus paper whether or not they consistently struggle over standard problems like a 1NT response: it helps sort out the wheat from the chaff, there is no point in trying to scrape up another membership for next year if the player is clearly not up to it (or really interested).
I do believe that a lot of the problems with bidding and hand evaluation are due to poor teaching methods rather than inherent difficulty, but as a non-teacher I rest that axe and just try to enlighten the beginners I play with.

In recent years we have a related but surprising phenomenon, "new" 50-60 year old players who struggle with bidding but are already accomplised at play. Not sure if that is true in other countries or if they have a lesser diffusion of whist-like games outside of bridge in such generations. The few who eventually see the light can become valued players, but others can be a menace as they worsen confusion about bidding and have no compunction in flaunting the rules.

[mycroft]

I was once almost shut down in a bar playing bridge because they were concerned we might be gambling.

Well, we were...at $0.001/point ($0.10/hundred for you brits), it effectively became (and was intended to be) "losers buy the drinks".

Also, has anyone tried talking to the M:tG and F&B and... players? Either to see if they'd be interested in a game that doesn't require bringing $1000 (*) in cards to get stolen, or a partnership game with similar skill in play and design? I mean, sure, it's a game for The Olds, but some long-time players are The Olds anyway...

But on skill vs chance, that's why "one hand" never matters. It's 48 for a "simple game" in the less-luck-induced format, or double+ in the more-chance format, or enough hands for a rubber in the cash format (or, as is frequently done now I'm told, sets of 4, Chicago).

(*): at least. I can't imagine the total cost that showed up in Prague last weekend, or for the other two Eternal Weekends...