[mr1303]

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Not our best attempt at the table. Both NS agreed that 4C was more encouraging than 5C, but 5C would rarely exist in case the 3C bid was a bit manufactured.

South thought that North owed a 4S cue. North felt that after having encouraged with 4C, he had bid his hand.

Who gets the biggest kicking?

At the other table, 2C, 2D, 2H, 2S, 3NT, 4C, 6NT got to a very inferior slam, but sadly it made.

[jillybean]

North does not have a great hand, shortness in partners first suit and an awful diamond holding.
However partner is unlimited, after the ♦ cue, I think North must show the spade control. I can't imagine not cueing an Ace below game. ♣J632 is a plus.
Now South can place the ♠ Ace with partner, keycard and bid 6♣

I'm glad South didn't take advantage of the "slow" 5♣

[AL78]

It looks like North decided they had enough to encourage then changed their mind when South started showing slam interest. I think if North wants to encourage, they should be prepared to cue the spade ace and if they think their hand is minimal, they should have bid 3NT instead of 4♣.

South was maybe a tad pesimmistic. North has made an encouraging noise with support and South has a three loser hand. What type of hand opposite can encourage where slam has no play and how likely are they to have a hand like that? If North doesn't have the spade ace, they should have the club ace to encourage plus a bit outside to respond in the first place.

[mw64ahw]

Opening 2♣ with 9 playing tricks gives responder a better idea of playing strength and makes the ♣ slam less of a stretch

[Cyberyeti]

I'm guessing 4N was your ace ask, this is a massive issue with clubs agreed, if 4♦ was an ace ask, you wouldn't have this problem on this hand.

4♠ is completely automatic.

I usually don't like opening 2♣ on 2 suited hands like this, but playing Kokish, I can pretty much guarantee a 2♣-2♦-2♥-2♠-3♣ start unless partner goes positive, so I get the hand off my chest, and now it goes 4♣-4♦(kickback)-4♠(1) and I bid 6♣.

[pescetom]

I think that both deserve a mild kicking for the expectation that a 3C jump may be manufactured.

[mw64ahw]

 pescetom, on 2023-April-04, 02:34, said:

I think that both deserve a mild kicking for the expectation that a 3C jump may be manufactured.

Agreed, but doesn't the bidding suggests that North thought it was strong natural?

[mikeh]

 pescetom, on 2023-April-04, 02:34, said:

I think that both deserve a mild kicking for the expectation that a 3C jump may be manufactured.

x AKQxxx xxx AKQ or K AKQxxx xxx AKx

I’d not open 2C on either partly because my partner expects (slightly) more and in my partnerships my partner has as much control over constructive bidding as do I and partly because we use a 2D response to show, firstly, at least one control (A=2, K= 1) and, secondly, a game force. That means that opposite my first example we are committed to game opposite as little as Kxxxxx x xx xxxx and on the second as little as xxxx x Kx xxxxx. It’s not that I never reach poor to hopeless games after 2C but that I’d prefer to minimize the risk, hence sound 2C openers (although I’ve loosened up a bit in recent years)

Your call after 1H 1S?

As for who truly deserves a kicking, I agree that north ought to have cuebid.

I use 4D as kickback in my main partnership and agree with cyber that it’s use by south over 4C would make short work of the hand. It’s difficult to construct a hand on which a 1 keycard response gives us no decent play for slam….even Axxx xx Kxx xxxx isn’t hopeless and he might have chosen 3N or 3H with that (as per my fake 3C example)

[bluenikki]

 mikeh, on 2023-April-04, 10:07, said:

x AKQxxx xxx AKQ or K AKQxxx xxx AKx

I’d not open 2C on either partly because my partner expects (slightly) more and in my partnerships my partner has as much control over constructive bidding as do I and partly because we use a 2D response to show, firstly, at least one control (A=2, K= 1) and, secondly, a game force. That means that opposite my first example we are committed to game opposite as little as Kxxxxx x xx xxxx and on the second as little as xxxx x Kx xxxxx. It’s not that I never reach poor to hopeless games after 2C but that I’d prefer to minimize the risk, hence sound 2C openers (although I’ve loosened up a bit in recent years)

Your call after 1H 1S?

As for who truly deserves a kicking, I agree that north ought to have cuebid.

I use 4D as kickback in my main partnership and agree with cyber that it’s use by south over 4C would make short work of the hand. It’s difficult to construct a hand on which a 1 keycard response gives us no decent play for slam….even Axxx xx Kxx xxxx isn’t hopeless and he might have chosen 3N or 3H with that (as per my fake 3C example)

Opener's fake jumpshift is the worst bid in bridge.

It's easy to fix. Just switch the jump rebid with the jump in the lower unbid minor.

[mikeh]

 bluenikki, on 2023-April-04, 11:10, said:

Opener's fake jumpshift is the worst bid in bridge.

It's easy to fix. Just switch the jump rebid with the jump in the lower unbid minor.

Wow! That’s me told, lol.

Worse than mini-roman?

Good to know you are a better bridge theorist than The Bridge World’s Jeff Rubens, who wrote an article on 1M then 3C some years back.

For us, after 1H 1N, we use 2S as artificial gf, asking responder to bid 2N then we clarify, and use 3m as good 5=5 but nf.

After 1H 1S we use 3C as gf, either great hearts (just short of 2C) or natural….responder usually bids 3D to await clarification.

After 1S 1N 3C is gf, either natural or great spades or, and this has proved useful, exactly 4 hearts, allowing 1S 1N 3H to promise 5 hearts

But I guess I’ve been very wrong all these years, using the worst bid in bridge, lol. What do I know?

[Cyberyeti]

 mikeh, on 2023-April-04, 11:19, said:

Wow! That’s me told, lol.

Worse than mini-roman?

Good to know you are a better bridge theorist than The Bridge World’s Jeff Rubens, who wrote an article on 1M then 3C some years back.

For us, after 1H 1N, we use 2S as artificial gf, asking responder to bid 2N then we clarify, and use 3m as good 5=5 but nf.

After 1H 1S we use 3C as gf, either great hearts (just short of 2C) or natural….responder usually bids 3D to await clarification.

After 1S 1N 3C is gf, either natural or great spades or, and this has proved useful, exactly 4 hearts, allowing 1S 1N 3H to promise 5 hearts

But I guess I’ve been very wrong all these years, using the worst bid in bridge, lol. What do I know?

Acol has used the fake jump shift for years, particularly for BW death hands.

We decided to use an artificial 2N rebid instead to deal with these hands, but that's much more difficult to do alongside a strong NT.