[ozzstyl]

I've unfortunately had a couple of instances as a Beginner in competitive play that have proven to be discouraging to me as a new player. My initial experience indicates that there can be minimal leniency given to a Beginner when mistakes are made.
I would like to know if it is possible for players to be matched in competitive play at the same level?

[thepossum]

I find this issue something of a catch 22

Nobody wants to play with a table of beginners

Everyone wants to play with 3 decent players who are very tolerant of their beginner errors

[pescetom]

I would suggest a three pronged approach, mixing the following:
1. rent a robot to play in a pairs tournament against (mainly) human pairs
2. find another committed beginner and play together at a table you open
3. join a local bridge club and take advantage of their tuition and mentoring opportunities, playing with good players as often as possible.

[jgelman]

ozzstyl, on 2022-November-26, 00:48, said:

I've unfortunately had a couple of instances as a Beginner in competitive play that have proven to be discouraging to me as a new player. My initial experience indicates that there can be minimal leniency given to a Beginner when mistakes are made.
I would like to know if it is possible for players to be matched in competitive play at the same level?

Please consider joining our friendly Wednesday BBO game from 11am-1pm pacific. We use the “undo” bid button if a goof occurs.
juliegelman@me.com

[moga321]

A couple of suggestions for you (in addition to the ones previous):

• Use the BBO Challenges. They are free, and you can challenge a friend, a stranger, a star, a group of people. All in all it's a great tool.
  
• Playing bridgemasters is a good strategy to practice certain techniques.
  
• Try the 499er games on BBO (those are limited to those with less than 500 MP) or the 0-1500 ACBL games on BBO (up to 1500 MP)

[MichCart]

I've had a similar situation. I just had an experienced player message me to 'stop playing bridge - you cannot learn". I happened to beat him in the BBO Express competition, but it is very demoralizing! Is it possible to have a few BBO Point competitions based on a BBO Range? Example: 0-2; 3-5; 6-14; 15+

That way the novices can learn in a "safe" place and build up BBO points, without annoying experienced players.

[jillybean]

I don't know if BBO, "express competitions", random partners and opponents is the best place to gauge your level of play or learn.
I think you need to find a trusted mentor who plays the same system as you do, or the system you would like to play.

IMO, the best way to learn is to play against the strongest pairs you can find and study the results but for this you do need thick skin.

[P_Marlowe]

MichCart, on 2023-June-15, 16:53, said:

I've had a similar situation. I just had an experienced player message me to 'stop playing bridge - you cannot learn". I happened to beat him in the BBO Express competition, but it is very demoralizing! Is it possible to have a few BBO Point competitions based on a BBO Range? Example: 0-2; 3-5; 6-14; 15+

That way the novices can learn in a "safe" place and build up BBO points, without annoying experienced players.

# Put the player on a black list. Chances are high, the exp. player is less exp., than he likes to think about himself,
and the blacklist stops this kind of *****.
And after optimizing your black list, move on.

# There are comp. for "strong" players, if reached and honor rank, or have start, they are open for you, it is certainly a
an idea to have comp. for players with less points. There exist comp. with a stratified field, my take is, most are paid comp.
Finnally, for what's it worth: My cureent BBO Point rank is 5+, I dont think myself of an expert, but equally I am no a N/I
player either, and I know quite a few equally ( or even stronger player, that have the same amout / or less, i.e. it is
debatable, if you would achieve, what you want to achieve.

[P_Marlowe]

ozzstyl, on 2022-November-26, 00:48, said:

I've unfortunately had a couple of instances as a Beginner in competitive play that have proven to be discouraging to me as a new player. My initial experience indicates that there can be minimal leniency given to a Beginner when mistakes are made.
I would like to know if it is possible for players to be matched in competitive play at the same level?

There used to be the BIL, I guess, it is less active now.
There used to be the IAC, similar.


A common option is to enter the comp. with a robot, the robot does not
complain, and the opponents dont mind, when you make a mistake.

[helene_t]

If you play Acol, the Acol club is good fr beginners, but even if you play 5-card majors you are welcome their also although you may have to bring a partner as most beginners in the Acol club don't know 5-card majors

[Turco1256]

Rude behavior is common om casual play. The hidden nature and those who find they for the first time can hold their own in play relish the chance to act superior.

[thepossum]

Turco1256, on 2023-November-15, 14:41, said:

Rude behavior is common om casual play. The hidden nature and those who find they for the first time can hold their own in play relish the chance to act superior.

It's still something of a mystery why it is so common and where they all learn their behaviour
-its just alien to me and most of mmy cultural experience

What's weird is that if I was a random dropped into the World Championships and ruined someone's hand I could understand

[mycroft]

For the OP. I offer my usual, which is:

• Sorry. Bridge is like that. Try to ignore it as much as you can. For what it's worth, it's *much* better than it was when I learned (which was much better than it was back in the 1960s "glory days"...)
  
• Find a couple of people you like and play well with and don't treat you like this. Friend them, and get more games with them.
  
• Once you have enough partners, stop playing pickup. Yes, that means the quality of players in the Permanent Floating Pickup Pool gets that much ruder. Oh well.
  
• When the opponents do it, smile, your results will go up. If they do it to you instead of their partner, the proper response is "when I want lessons, I'll pay for them." Or "Director", if there is one.

For the discussion on why:

• Bridge is a game that appeals to smart people.
  
• A common pattern of smart people is they like to show off that they are smart.
  
• A common issue with that is it can come off as condescending (especially in the "yeah, I didn't see that until after the hand either. But if you think I didn't work it out *now*..." mode).
  
• It's even worse online, because of "internet depersonalization" (which is the polite term for Penny Arcade's GIFTheory. Which I won't link to, because - it's not polite. Accurate, but not polite).
  
• A reminder of what the failure mode of clever is...

Also, bridge is a game with a fairly steep learning curve, and everyone who has got to the "first step" (or the fifteenth, or whatever) has forgotten how much they actually know. They just assume "everybody" knows all this. So when their pickup centre-hand opponent (where did that term come from, I wonder? Maybe it's a "clever comment"?) does something "obviously wrong", like not transferring even with zero points, or not covering the honour, or not knowing the right blackwood answer, or ... they respond incredulously. Which again is rude, but really is "I thought everybody knew this".

• Note that this applies, especially in the "no longer new" bridge community, to things that "everybody" in their area knows/plays, but they don't yet realize isn't universal. Like "1430" is how you respond to KeyCard, or "Ogust" is 2NT, or "but weak 2s are always 2/top 3" (when they've just gone down in 3NT because the weak 2 suit doesn't run), or...
  
• I mean, we all know what "inverted minors" mean, right? And the rebids?
  
• So they lash out, in the "When did you learn to play Bridge? I mean, I know it was *today*, but what time today?"(*) mode, when it turns out that people in Monterey, CA play <this way>, and people in Monterrey, NL play <that way>.

(*)Again, failure mode of clever. There's a lot of them in Bridge history "funny stories". I wonder why? And as long as you're not the butt of them, they are funny. In an American Sit-Com way.

[AL78]

thepossum, on 2023-November-17, 00:41, said:

It's still something of a mystery why it is so common and where they all learn their behaviour
-its just alien to me and most of mmy cultural experience

What's weird is that if I was a random dropped into the World Championships and ruined someone's hand I could understand

It is a feature of social media in general. Being anonymous behind the safety of a computer screen brings out the worst in some people, they feel they can say things to another person they wouldn't dare too if face to face because they needn't fear a punch in the face. In addition virtual interaction is dehumanising so you are just a pseudonym on a screen, not a real human being. Some people are only barely civilised due to social requirements* and that civility is effectively a thin and fragile crust overlaying the true toxic personality within. Weaken that crust by allowing actions without consequences which on-screen interaction provides and the narcissistic side breaks through and erupts like a volcano.

*I think this can happen in the physical world as well. Some people can become more cantancerous with age as they reach a point where they realise no-one has any power/influence over them so they cannot be held to account for their actions, so why not say and do what you like.

[pescetom]

AL78, on 2023-December-03, 08:09, said:

Being anonymous behind the safety of a computer screen brings out the worst in some people, they feel they can say things to another person they wouldn't dare too if face to face because they needn't fear a punch in the face. In addition virtual interaction is dehumanising so you are just a pseudonym on a screen, not a real human being. Some people are only barely civilised due to social requirements* and that civility is effectively a thin and fragile crust overlaying the true toxic personality within. Weaken that crust by allowing actions without consequences which on-screen interaction provides and the narcissistic side breaks through and erupts like a volcano.

After a lifetime on social networks (from Usenet onwards) I agree that many if not most of us cannot resist the opportunity to deviate (knowingly or not) from the personality that social requirements have imposed on them and experiment an alternative personality that allows free rein to tendencies they usually hide. The resulting behaviour can be toxic, but I don't agree that the person himself is necessarily so (I could cite you several precise examples from this forum) or that the people who flirt with a different personality online lack culture or are necessarily barely civilised. For thousands of years even the most civilised (especially the most civilised) have enjoyed donning a mask in parties and carnivals, for obvious reasons. Now that we are all so carefully scrutinised in every facet of our lives, this urge is even stronger.

AL78, on 2023-December-03, 08:09, said:

Some people can become more cantankerous with age as they reach a point where they realise no-one has any power/influence over them so they cannot be held to account for their actions, so why not say and do what you like.

I've seen this in two different situations, neither quite as you describe. One is that they were "barely civilised" to start with and are no longer unable to keep up the act (obnoxious bridge players who no longer win), or they don't really care any more as it no longer gives the same satisfactions. Another is that they were well functioning adults but reach a point where they are no longer self-sufficient but still well aware that they are not getting the respect and attention they feel they deserve (even a saint would become cantankerous in the average old age home).

[ASC87]

ozzstyl, on 2022-November-26, 00:48, said:

I've unfortunately had a couple of instances as a Beginner in competitive play that have proven to be discouraging to me as a new player. My initial experience indicates that there can be minimal leniency given to a Beginner when mistakes are made.
I would like to know if it is possible for players to be matched in competitive play at the same level?

I am so sorry to hear this. I have had such horrible instances where opponents have ganged up by saying such inappropriate things to me, turn by turn, first on the table and then via private message. I have a long list of ignored players, but it just keeps getting worse. I have been told millions of times that I need to go to Kindergarten and advised to leave the game before it turns into humiliation (no, not in a supportive way, but in a sarcastic way). For the longest time, I was scared of playing with people and stuck with challenges and robots. I even stopped playing and found out about IntoBridge, where people were way more friendly and welcoming as it was a smaller community. I picked up again and started to practice and play there until I gained some confidence to return to BBO. Of course, if I play well, I face fewer such experiences, but I must say, one misclick or one wrong move, and I saw that coming again. I even posted a poll on this forum asking how people dealt with the rudeness, but it wasn’t responded to much; hence, I felt I was one of those bad players, and not many people experience what I do.

https://www.bridgeba...h-the-rudeness/

Reading this thread made it much more relatable.

Reporting abuse helps, but there needs to be some more accountability.
I just wanted to put it out there.

[Knurdler]

I second the suggestion of contacting your local bridge club.
Ours encourages and metors newer players to start with supervised play and progress through to higher levels.
The bridge club may also be able to refer you to other less formal bridge groups that you can try. There are at least 2 in my town.