[perko90]

MikeJ, on 2022-August-25, 15:37, said:

I thought XYZ *was* a new NMF. That's what I meant with my question.

When Opener rebids 1NT after a 1m Opening, 2-way NMF and XYZ are generally identical.

XYZ is more generic and applies to other sequences like 1♥-1♠; 1NT and 1♣-1♥; 1♠. Like the name implies, if the 1st 3 bids are at the 1 level, then XYZ is on. I don't recommend XYZ for Intermediate players. Responder's hand is often better described by natural and forcing bids (my 1st ex) or Opener has a much wider range (my 2nd ex), in which case there's been long arguments on when or whether Opener skips the semi-automatic 2♦ Rebid after Responder's invitational 2♣ XYZ bid. I recommend skipping the extended version and just do the 2-way NMF version (which is definitely superior to vanilla NMF).

BTW, 2-way NMF might go by its more accurate alternate name, 2-way Checkback, in the sense that there's not necessarily a new (unbid) minor involved.

[MikeJ]

Thanks! Where is a good place to read up on 2-way NMF?

[akwoo]

My recommendation to intermediate players who live in strong NT land but face the occasional weak NT is to simply stick with your strong NT defense and forego the penalty X. For one thing, 1N is the hardest contract to defend, especially if you have a strong hand over declarer and aren't too good at avoiding being endplayed (or making the best choice when endplayed). I've collected a lot of +180 (or +560/+760) playing weak NT because defender is just doubling too often given their defensive skill.

Also, you should only be coming in against the weak NT holding something close to an opening hand, and partner should learn to pass your conventional double with a suitable hand! So while you lose by defending 1N undoubled with 15 opposite 8, you get some of it back by getting to defend 1NX with some (but not all) 12 opposite 11 hands.

[Gerardo]

MikeJ, on 2022-August-25, 15:37, said:

I thought XYZ *was* a new NMF. That's what I meant with my question.

2-way NMF and XYNT are two names for the same thing

(XYNT = 1x : 1y : 1NT, all by the same side)

XYZ applies to all 1x : 1y : 1z, any 3 bids at the 1 level

[Stephen Tu]

MikeJ, on 2022-August-25, 20:24, said:

Thanks! Where is a good place to read up on 2-way NMF?

https://www.jeff-gol...ycheckback.html
Although the suit symbol links are currently screwed up, you can probably manage to figure it out. Can look at raw page source, or download web page locally and put some suit symbol images in the right place.

[Stephen Tu]

Gerardo, on 2022-August-25, 22:02, said:

2-way NMF and XYNT are two names for the same thing

I don't know about that ... I think there were versions of 2-way NMF where 2c was *not* a puppet (just a non-GF ask). XYNT and 2-way puppet checkback are close to identical but there are like a bunch of different variations (I know of 4!) of how to sign off in 3 clubs after say 1c-1s-1nt, which also affect meanings of direct 2nt and delayed 2nt. Be sure you & partner are using the same version!

[pescetom]

MikeJ, on 2022-August-25, 15:37, said:

I thought XYZ *was* a new NMF. That's what I meant with my question.

Well not exactly. It replaces NMF and is similar to 2 way NMF but not the same (edit: I see Stephen explained). And it also replaces Checkback or whatever you would play there.

[MikeJ]

Stephen Tu, on 2022-August-25, 22:35, said:

https://www.jeff-gol...ycheckback.html
Although the suit symbol links are currently screwed up, you can probably manage to figure it out. Can look at raw page source, or download web page locally and put some suit symbol images in the right place.

Thank you for the link!

And I did just as you suggested and downloaded the code, mined his site for the suit symbol images and downloaded them to my drive and the page now displays perfectly, which is very helpful.

[blackshoe]

There are, to my knowledge, four artificial continuations after 1x-1y-1NT which are oriented around finding a major suit fit. In order of usefulness (my opinion, though I stole it from George Rosenkranz):

1. New Minor Forcing
2. Checkback Stayman
3. What has come to be called by some XYNT and by others XYZ
4. Two Way Checkback Stayman

#1 is least useful, #4 is most useful, though I think many would argue that 3 and 4 should be reversed. IAC, the difference between the two is that in XYNT 2♣ is a puppet to 2♦, while in Two Way Checkback Stayman it simply asks about opener's major suit holdings.

On the names, I may be wrong about the history, but I *think* that the way it happened was that someone looked at XYZ auctions where Z is a suit at the one level, and came up with the idea that 2♣ could be a puppet to 2♦ with invitational hands or wanting to bail out in diamonds, while 2♦ would be game forcing. Then somebody said "why not apply the same principle to auctions where Z is 1NT, since Two Way Checkback Stayman has too many nuances?" At first they called it "Two Way Checkback", then some started calling it XYNT, and some just went with XYZ on the grounds that "we're just adding one family of auctions to the existing XYZ structure". <shrug> I don't think it matters much, except that I'd much rather not call #3 "Two Way Checkback" since that conflicts with a pre-existing different convention with that name.

Whether you call it XYNT or XYZ, it differs from XYZ where Z is a suit in that in XYNT, 2♣ is a puppet to 2♦ (partner is expected to bid 2♦, period) while if Z is a suit, 2♣ is a marionette, so opener can bid something other than 2♦ with a suitable hand.

Heh. I fell asleep with this still in draft, and just woke up and discovered it pretty much has already been said, but I figure I'll just post it anyway. :-)

[pescetom]

There are two more twists to XYZ that I think give it a clear edge, although neither is completely standard yet.

1. Rather than putting all game force hands through 2D and maintaining 2NT and jump rebid as natural invites which are nuanced compared to their 2C equivalents, the tendency is to put *all* invites through 2C which frees up jump rebids as low level game forces fixing trumps


2. This also frees up 2NT as a Puppet to 3C, pass with weak clubs or show game forcing two suits, mainly 5-5.

The combination of the two is powerful, in particular 2D is now nuanced as a game force in search of direction, with first priority to show 3 card support.