[wfinger]

In a live game, is the dummy allowed to tell the declarer if they should be leading from their hand or the board if they look like they may play from the wrong place?

[sfi]

Law 42B gives dummy the right to "try to prevent any irregularity." So yes, dummy is allowed to try to stop declarer (or defender, for that matter) from leading from the wrong hand.

If declarer has already done so, dummy's best course of action is to simply play the called card since the irregularity has already happened. The defenders now have options, but if they play a card here they have accepted the lead out of turn and play continues as normal. There are some caveats to this (declarer was required to lead a specific card or the lead was to trick 12, for instance), but generally once it's happened dummy should not point it out.

[mycroft]

If we're quoting laws (which of course we should be here...)

"If declarer has already done so, dummy's best course of action is to simply play the called card..." In fact, it is dummy's *required* action. Law 43A1b: "Dummy may not call attention to an irregularity during play." Once the irregularity has happened, nothing dummy can do about it.

One other thing: "if they look like they may play from the wrong place" is fine. It can not get to the point where dummy is telling or showing declarer where they are on every trick, Law 43B1c: "Dummy must not participate in the play, nor communicate anything about the play to declarer." It is only when something is about to happen, not before it could happen or after it has happened, that dummy can warn declarer about leading from the wrong hand.

[barmar]

I've seen some players who habitually tell their declaring partner "You're in your hand" and "You're on the table" before each trick. One might be able to argue that this is allowed by 42B, but many of us think that this can only be invoked when it becomes apparent that declarer is about to lead from the wrong hand (e.g. they're in dummy and they start to pull a card from their hand). But if that's the intent, it's hard to imagine how one would be able to tell that declarer is about to call a card from dummy, before they do it. Maybe if they say something like "Play the ..." before the card, you could catch them there.

[mycroft]

I've seen people put their hand on the table, palm in, whenever partner is on the board. Doesn't have to say anything.

Where "attempt to prevent an irregularity" becomes "assisting partner in the play" is a vague line. But if it's "regularly", or "habitually" and not in response to an obvious lead-in to doing something, it's beyond that line.

And it's a tiny thing, but illegal, and annoys me no end. Especially if *my partner* tries it.

[pilowsky]

Apart from annoying declarer by interrupting their train of thought, can you suggest a way that it might damage the opposition - unless they have a super-secret code where palm down means "don't forget the 6 is top" for example?
If I was declarer I would find this type of behaviour the opposite of helpful.

[mycroft]

It's "assisting declarer in the play", by taking one thing to remember off declarer's brain, giving her more brain-space for other things.

It would drive me absolutely batty - but the number of "you need to tell me where I am" players I have run into lets me know that we are not universal.

[bluenikki]

mycroft, on 2022-February-08, 15:53, said:

It's "assisting declarer in the play", by taking one thing to remember off declarer's brain, giving her more brain-space for other things.

It would drive me absolutely batty - but the number of "you need to tell me where I am" players I have run into lets me know that we are not universal.

In the ftf days, when I was dummy in a notrump contract, I laid the suits down in increasing length from declarer's left to right.

Is that illegal assistance?

Carl

[mycroft]

Wouldn't be "illegal assistance", but could be "aids to memory" (40B2d). Do you put down dummy as trumps, then increasing length from left to right in a suit contract? If yes, then it's consistent and no problem - but if not, then you're reminding declarer, by the shape of dummy, that they are in NT.

I don't know where the line is; I do know that "put opening leader's suit on the right" is considered an aid to memory. I know that "<trumps>SHDC" or "<trumps>SHCD", always, is not. I know that "don't put a long bid suit in the trumps position at NT" is considered not an aid to memory, but that's not the same thing as "shortest to longest at NT, trumps, then whatever at a suit contract".

So I don't have a bright line answer for you, I'm sorry.

[pilowsky]

I was told Trumps on the right prevents a fight.
In one club there was a tendency to put the led suit on the left.
I'm still uncertain of the legality of either.

[blackshoe]

Quote

Law 41D: After the opening lead is faced, dummy spreads his hand in front of him on the table, face up, sorted into suits, the cards in order of rank with lowest ranking cards towards declarer, and in separate columns pointing lengthwise towards declarer. Trumps are placed to dummy’s right. Declarer plays both his hand and that of dummy.

Other than "trumps are placed to dummy's right" the law does not specify where to put the suits. My personal preference is to put them in some order different to the order I used the last time I was dummy, assuming I can remember what that was. Alternatively, SHDC or SHCD should be fine (some will complain about the first because it puts two red suits together).

[pilowsky]

blackshoe, on 2022-February-12, 20:36, said:

Other than "trumps are placed to dummy's right" the law does not specify where to put the suits. My personal preference is to put them in some order different to the order I used the last time I was dummy, assuming I can remember what that was. Alternatively, SHDC or SHCD should be fine (some will complain about the first because it puts two red suits together).

Doesn't "the cards in order of rank with lowest ranking cards towards declarer," mean SHDC?

[pescetom]

pilowsky, on 2022-February-12, 20:55, said:

Doesn't "the cards in order of rank with lowest ranking cards towards declarer," mean SHDC?

No, it just means that each suit will be spread out in descending order towards declarer (rank is 23456789TJQKA).

[barmar]

This month's ACBL Bulletin has a "Ruling the Game" column that addresses all of these dummy practices, and says they're mostly illegal. However, proving damage is difficult -- there's no way to know that declarer would have gone wrong without dummy's help in these ways. The best you can usually do is inform the player in question that it's not allowed and they should stop; if they don't, you can assess a procedural penalty.

[pescetom]

barmar, on 2022-February-14, 08:22, said:

This month's ACBL Bulletin has a "Ruling the Game" column that addresses all of these dummy practices, and says they're mostly illegal. However, proving damage is difficult -- there's no way to know that declarer would have gone wrong without dummy's help in these ways. The best you can usually do is inform the player in question that it's not allowed and they should stop; if they don't, you can assess a procedural penalty.

This is a good if minor example of how the lawmakers seem to enjoy leaving people in doubt about the objectives of law and with ample room to misbehave.
Would it be so difficult to decide rationally what (if any) memory aids the dummy should provide, then on that basis specify how the suits should be ordered?
As it is, it seems they decided that:

a) nobody has the right to be reminded by the hand of dummy whether the contract is in trumps or not, even if they can ask (at certain moments)
b) if the contract is in trumps, everyone who remembers that has the right to know which suit it is by looking at the hand of dummy (unless it has three or less suits remaining)
c) memory aids to declarer are not a good thing, especially if opponents are not in on the secret, but dummy can lay the suits out in any order he likes except for trumps on right

and then they headed off for dinner.

[pilowsky]

Great. That clears everything up.

[pescetom]

pilowsky, on 2022-February-14, 15:08, said:

Great. That clears everything up.

If you want something more constructive, a proposal.

After the final pass, Dummy lays out the bidding box card for contract and (if applicable) double or redouble, everyone inspects this and returns their cards to the bidding box: it is clear what contract was placed and who is on lead.
After the opening lead is faced, Dummy lays out his suits in order spades hearts diamonds clubs starting from right.