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I overdid one trick and got a near top advance sacrifice - was it a good idea?

#1 User is offline   mikl_plkcc 

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Posted 2021-September-09, 15:52

MP scoring.

My holding:


According to LoTT I should bid 4, but the colours were so nice and given my holding I suspected they would make 5 so I overbid a trick, expecting to get doubled. Result was the expected -3 which got me 4/5, outperforming the 3 tables which played 5 and made either 11 or 12 tricks, with the only better result coming from a table stopped at 3.

Was it better to bid 5 directly to shut their 5 out, making them a guess whether to bid a slam or not, or just bid 4 hoping that they wouldn't compete to 5?
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#2 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-September-09, 18:33

I would not have 5 on my radar. My question is among 2, 3, and 4. It sounds like opener is fairly strong but may not be thinking game after a simple raise from his partner. If I think 5C is a make, I might be better off bidding 2S now and see what happens. 3S takes more room away but alerts opps to your weak hand. 4S takes max room.

I think 3S is enough as our biggest hand is behind their biggest hand so we might have a plus coming our way. 4S would be my bid against strong opponents.
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#3 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-September-09, 19:15

Can't this be an ordinary hand like:

where the opponents might not even gone past 2? (3 at best.)

I would bid 4, but definitely not higher - there's just too many ways 5 can lose.
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#4 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2021-September-09, 21:11

View Postmikl_plkcc, on 2021-September-09, 15:52, said:

MP scoring.

My holding:


According to LoTT I should bid 4, but the colours were so nice and given my holding I suspected they would make 5 so I overbid a trick, expecting to get doubled. Result was the expected -3 which got me 4/5, outperforming the 3 tables which played 5 and made either 11 or 12 tricks, with the only better result coming from a table stopped at 3.

Was it better to bid 5 directly to shut their 5 out, making them a guess whether to bid a slam or not, or just bid 4 hoping that they wouldn't compete to 5?


You can always bid 5 later in the auction - if the next round of bidding makes you believe that sacrifice is best. 4 is what many players will do at white/red. the only time I might bid 5 is if partner bid 2 as a weak call instead of 1 though I still think 4 is the better bid even after 2 overcall. going to five level on first round of bidding is very not usual.
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#5 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2021-September-10, 08:08

View PostLBengtsson, on 2021-September-09, 21:11, said:

You can always bid 5 later in the auction - if the next round of bidding makes you believe that sacrifice is best. 4 is what many players will do at white/red. the only time I might bid 5 is if partner bid 2 as a weak call instead of 1 though I still think 4 is the better bid even after 2 overcall. going to five level on first round of bidding is very not usual.

I would strongly disagree with anyone who bid 4S and then bid 5S over 5C. Such action violates one of the fundamental rules of preemptive bidding. If one anticipates taking a save, bid as high as one intends to bid as soon as possible. One of the most frustrating results one can have is to overcall 1S, hear partner bid 4S, the opps bid 5C, which is about to go down (but unable to double) and then see partner snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by bidding 5S.

IOW, if one were convinced that they can and will bid and make 5C and if one were optimistic that 5S would be a good save, bid 5S right away.

However, 5S would not occur to me on this hand.

I don’t understand why I’d be convinced that they would bid 5C over my preferred 3S call, nor that they’d make it nor that 5S would be a good save.

I do understand that all of those things ‘could’ be true, as I gather they were, but I don’t understand why one would think that they were all true…note that for 5S to be right, one is betting that three different things are true…if just one is wrong, 5S is terrible.
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