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As novices we have completed a nr of Relaxed games, and we are a little baffled by the scoring in the We/They columns.
Despite making contracts bid for the points allocated appear confusing. Partners score more points despite losing the contract to the hand bid?????
Is there somewhere we can establish where, and how the points apply?
Thank you.Apologies if this has been asked before.
AAA
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Basic We/They scoring system Explaination
#2
- Group: Advanced Members
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- Location:Poland
Posted 2021-February-19, 13:24
You may have discovered the art of the sacrifice!
Here is a straightforward example.
The hard part about sacrificing is that, in duplicate Bridge, other pairs MUST make the optimal contract for your sacrifice to be worthwhile.
This type of sacrifice is very common.
Here is an example from yesterday.
On this board, it turns out that EW can make 4S West vulnerable for +620, but 5D-3 doubled by NS (not vulnerable) is +500 to them.
Obviously, it is better to be +620 rather than only +500.
But this only works if the other people in the field are allowed to make their vulnerable game contract.
This is what the possible outcomes are. You can see that West can make 4S, but 5DX is a better outcome for NS.
We were North-South. Because we were allowed to play in 4D and made 4D-1, we ended up -50 but got a score of 67.11%.
If we had let them play in 3S, they would make it easily (many did), and we would get -170 and score a measly 27.63%.
As it turned out, in this tournament, 39 tables played the hand. 5 made 4S. So that's why our percentage was so high. We got a smaller negative score than we should have!
A tragedy of Bridge scoring is that you do not always get rewarded for making the 'right bid' - you only get rewarded if you prevent someone from getting their contract.
Suppose the rest of the players don't bid and make the best contract, then your 'genius' is met with derision.
In real life. it is sometimes to your advantage to lose if it prevents someone from gaining something that you really want.
It's probably the reason that big companies buy up small competitors. It prevents newcomers from taking their customers and forcing the established company to charge less for their service.
In real life, there are limits because people can get hurt. In Bridge, the pain only lasts a very short time.
Here is a straightforward example.
The hard part about sacrificing is that, in duplicate Bridge, other pairs MUST make the optimal contract for your sacrifice to be worthwhile.
This type of sacrifice is very common.
Here is an example from yesterday.
On this board, it turns out that EW can make 4S West vulnerable for +620, but 5D-3 doubled by NS (not vulnerable) is +500 to them.
Obviously, it is better to be +620 rather than only +500.
But this only works if the other people in the field are allowed to make their vulnerable game contract.
This is what the possible outcomes are. You can see that West can make 4S, but 5DX is a better outcome for NS.
We were North-South. Because we were allowed to play in 4D and made 4D-1, we ended up -50 but got a score of 67.11%.
If we had let them play in 3S, they would make it easily (many did), and we would get -170 and score a measly 27.63%.
As it turned out, in this tournament, 39 tables played the hand. 5 made 4S. So that's why our percentage was so high. We got a smaller negative score than we should have!
A tragedy of Bridge scoring is that you do not always get rewarded for making the 'right bid' - you only get rewarded if you prevent someone from getting their contract.
Suppose the rest of the players don't bid and make the best contract, then your 'genius' is met with derision.
In real life. it is sometimes to your advantage to lose if it prevents someone from gaining something that you really want.
It's probably the reason that big companies buy up small competitors. It prevents newcomers from taking their customers and forcing the established company to charge less for their service.
In real life, there are limits because people can get hurt. In Bridge, the pain only lasts a very short time.
Fortuna Fortis Felix
#3
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 4,048
- Joined: 2014-March-15
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Posted 2021-February-19, 13:37
aaallen59, on 2021-February-19, 12:15, said:
As novices we have completed a nr of Relaxed games, and we are a little baffled by the scoring in the We/They columns.
Despite making contracts bid for the points allocated appear confusing. Partners score more points despite losing the contract to the hand bid?????
Is there somewhere we can establish where, and how the points apply?
Thank you.Apologies if this has been asked before.
AAA
Despite making contracts bid for the points allocated appear confusing. Partners score more points despite losing the contract to the hand bid?????
Is there somewhere we can establish where, and how the points apply?
Thank you.Apologies if this has been asked before.
AAA
The most common form of bridge is duplicate. This means you are competing against other tables who are dealt exactly the same cards as you. This removes the luck of the draw entirely - whether you're dealt really bad cards or really good ones, you're still on a completely equal footing.
Your aim is to play your cards better than other people play your cards. If you make 4♠, and everyone else with your cards makes 4♠+1, you will get a negative score. If you go down one trick in 4♠, while at the other table your opponents are making 4♥, you'll get a positive score.
There are then two forms of scoring (IMPs and MPs) which have different tactics - the default on BBO which you are probably playing is IMPs. See here for some more details.
#4
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- Joined: 2011-September-12
Posted 2021-February-21, 22:34
Most play on BBO is duplicate, where your score is relative to players of a similar level, playing the same cards as you at 15 other tables.
IMPS is cross-IMPS where the differences between your score and the scores at the other table are calculated, then converted from points to IMPS to flatten the score (so that one -1400 doesn't dominate all the scoring) and then averaged. The advantage is that game swings tend to be the same size as in a simple iMPS teams duplicate match.
MPs is another duplicate scoring system where you get points for the number of pairs whose score you beat, and half that for pairs you tie.
Total Points (TP) is not scored as a duplicate against other tables, so who ever has the most As & Ks should make the most contracts and win. It still uses the duplicate points system though. It is the closest to what you want.
There is no rubber anymore as it was eliminated.
IMPS is cross-IMPS where the differences between your score and the scores at the other table are calculated, then converted from points to IMPS to flatten the score (so that one -1400 doesn't dominate all the scoring) and then averaged. The advantage is that game swings tend to be the same size as in a simple iMPS teams duplicate match.
MPs is another duplicate scoring system where you get points for the number of pairs whose score you beat, and half that for pairs you tie.
Total Points (TP) is not scored as a duplicate against other tables, so who ever has the most As & Ks should make the most contracts and win. It still uses the duplicate points system though. It is the closest to what you want.
There is no rubber anymore as it was eliminated.
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