[nige1]

You are playing simple 2/1 but this double is undiscussed.
Would you interpret it as
Penalty?,
Takeout?, or
Insane?
Would you double in this context?
What should advancer do?

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[raspeball]

nige1, on 2020-September-01, 12:31, said:

You are playing simple 2/1 but this double is undiscussed.
Would you interpret it as
Penalty?,
Takeout?, or
Insane?
Would you double in this context?
What should advancer do?

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Why did north not bid 1♠ over 1♥?

[apollo1201]

I’d treat the X as a very decent overcall (sound opening) and S support, probably 5-4 since you didn’t use a 2-suited bid over 1D. Having a pen X is not that much useful I think, as responder would likely correct to 2D when we hold such hand, and partner can’t necessarily X that. A hand where you hold Majors is more frequent esp when an opponent just showed minors.

The given hand has nothing special so I’d quickly pass. Good partners tend to balance 😉 ! But here N, who reluctantly passed the 1st time, will do the same with the feeling of not giving justice to his hand. Again, it shows that slightly overbidding the 1st occasion is more easily recoverable that underbidding.

[pigpenz]

most people would have bid 1♠ to start with

[sfi]

I seem to be alone here, but the double looks clear. I have extra values (at least an ace more than min, and probably more than that) and want to encourage partner to bid a major. Partner will choose hearts without a clear preference, so I'm happy to take the risk that we may have a real misfit. Even if partner is 4-1 in the majors there's a good chance we'll be fine.

I also don't think North is worth 1S in response to an overcall. Game is unlikely to be in the picture and hearts looks like an okay spot. Responding to an overcall should be more constructive than responding to an opening bid.

[Cyberyeti]

sfi, on 2020-September-01, 18:02, said:

I seem to be alone here, but the double looks clear. I have extra values (at least an ace more than min, and probably more than that) and want to encourage partner to bid a major. Partner will choose hearts without a clear preference, so I'm happy to take the risk that we may have a real misfit. Even if partner is 4-1 in the majors there's a good chance we'll be fine.

But if he's 4-2 you play probably in the wrong suit as if you're going to score a ruff, it will be in clubs so you won't have a late entry to the hearts

Quote

I also don't think North is worth 1S in response to an overcall. Game is unlikely to be in the picture and hearts looks like an okay spot. Responding to an overcall should be more constructive than responding to an opening bid.

Depends if you overcall on tram tickets. We don't so it's a clear 1♠, Kxxx, AKxxx, Ax, xx makes game plausible, and it can be a lot better than this, but not a clear x if opener rebids 3♦. Also if you do pass first time playing sound overcalls, partner knows you can't be this good, so doesn't have to double.

[raspeball]

sfi, on 2020-September-01, 18:02, said:

I seem to be alone here, but the double looks clear. I have extra values (at least an ace more than min, and probably more than that) and want to encourage partner to bid a major. Partner will choose hearts without a clear preference, so I'm happy to take the risk that we may have a real misfit. Even if partner is 4-1 in the majors there's a good chance we'll be fine.

I also don't think North is worth 1S in response to an overcall. Game is unlikely to be in the picture and hearts looks like an okay spot. Responding to an overcall should be more constructive than responding to an opening bid.

Seems clear to bid 1♠ over 1♥. When partner bid 1♥ vulnerable vs not after you first have passed, he needs to have a decent hand.
Also since north are a passed hand, it is clear to respond since south knows north passed initially.

Given the above, the south hand do not have enough offense to make a take out double.

When south make the double of 2♣ it is not an option to bid pass or 2♥ as was one of the options in the poll.
The choice is between 2♠ and 3♠. I would choose 3 ♠.

[nige1]

This board occurred in Harry Smith's long-running Monday Scottish Lockdown Teams, 2 days ago. FWIW, I overcall light, for the lead, even vulnerable, and even opposite a passed partner.

In our room, Partner thought my double of 2♣ was penalty. so she passed. We defeated 2♣X by 1 trick. In the other room, after the same start, the overcaller passed 2♣ and also took it 1-off.

So we earned a small profit of 2 imps
I intended my double to be T/O. Hence the poll.

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[sfi]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-September-02, 04:16, said:

But if he's 4-2 you play probably in the wrong suit as if you're going to score a ruff, it will be in clubs so you won't have a late entry to the hearts

If partner is 4-2, they will choose hearts much of the time. They should only choose spades if happy to play in the Moysian. On this hand I'm not too worried about it since I'll be ruffing clubs. If the play really does go like you're picturing in 2S, by the time I want to run hearts declarer will be out of losers to pitch on them.

[paulg]

There are insane aspects to this question but whether the double is insane is not one of them.

[Cyberyeti]

sfi, on 2020-September-02, 07:25, said:

If partner is 4-2, they will choose hearts much of the time. They should only choose spades if happy to play in the Moysian. On this hand I'm not too worried about it since I'll be ruffing clubs. If the play really does go like you're picturing in 2S, by the time I want to run hearts declarer will be out of losers to pitch on them.

This is where we differ, double shows either 4 spades or a huge hand for me and I have neither, so partner automatically bids 2♠ with 4-2, also 1♥ technically only promised 4.

OP got lucky, give partner ♠KQJ instead of AQ9 and 2♣x and 2♠ both make.

[sfi]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-September-02, 09:43, said:

This is where we differ, double shows either 4 spades or a huge hand for me and I have neither, so partner automatically bids 2♠ with 4-2, also 1♥ technically only promised 4.

You're right about the style question. I think your approach leads to not competing enough, but all I have is anecdotal evidence to back it up.

However, even if 1H only shows 4 (here we agree), once you double on the second round you have to have at least 5. Otherwise you would have simply doubled the first time.

[Cyberyeti]

sfi, on 2020-September-02, 16:24, said:

You're right about the style question. I think your approach leads to not competing enough, but all I have is anecdotal evidence to back it up.

However, even if 1H only shows 4 (here we agree), once you double on the second round you have to have at least 5. Otherwise you would have simply doubled the first time.

Depends what you would do with J10xx, AKQx, Axxx, x, I'd probably overcall 1♥ then x if playing more standard overcalls, I might pass second time playing my style.