[MickyB]

I am interested in continuations over 1NT:2NT and how it affects continuations over 1NT:2C. Does anyone know how Meckwell play it?

Thanks

[downagain]

3♣ = no 5M

3♦ = (31)(54)
3♥ = 4♠
3♠ = 4♥
3N = To Play

3M = 5M

[TWO4BRIDGE]

downagain, on 2010-November-18, 00:12, said:

 3♣ = no 5M

3♦ = (31)(54)
3♥ = 4♠
3♠ = 4♥
3N = To Play

3M = 5M

side issue request:

How did you get the proper "spacing" in your post?

Wait... I see something now in the "copy" of your reply :
[indent]..... in front of 3♦

... but I don't know how that [indent] function works ??

Edit: I now see [indent] ... and ... [ /indent ] right behind "to play" .

[mgoetze]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2010-November-18, 05:42, said:

side issue request:

How did you get the proper "spacing" in your post?

Wait... I see something now in the "copy" of your reply :
[indent]..... in front of 3♦

... but I don't know how that [indent] function works ??

When you are writing a post, there is a sneaky little button with a question mark in a blue circle, in the same row as the "other styles" and "fonts" drop-downs.

[downagain]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2010-November-18, 05:42, said:

side issue request:

How did you get the proper "spacing" in your post?

Wait... I see something now in the "copy" of your reply :
[indent]..... in front of 3♦

... but I don't know how that [indent] function works ??

You should see the indent buttons at the right when you are writing a post:  and  (next to the indent buttons, you have the allign buttons)

[TWO4BRIDGE]

downagain, on 2010-November-18, 00:12, said:

3♣ = no 5M

3♦ = (31)(54)
3♥ = 4♠
3♠ = 4♥
3N = To Play

3M = 5M

I think I see how to "indent" now.

I think I see how to "indent" now.

But another issue: I wasn't able to use this "indent" function to work when I tried to EDIT my previous post.

[MickyB]

Was pleased to see so many replies

I assume 4-4 majors goes through 2C Stayman so opener doesn't have to disclose whether he has four hearts or not when you go through puppet? What is 1N:2C, 2M:3N?

[downagain]

MickyB, on 2010-November-18, 06:41, said:

I assume 4-4 majors goes through 2C Stayman so opener doesn't have to disclose whether he has four hearts or not when you go through puppet? What is 1N:2C, 2M:3N?

Yes, they use stayman with 4-4 majors.

I have seen them using both 2♣ and 2N with only 1 major. Maybe they use 2N with 4-3 majors.. to find a possible 5-3 fit.. but I haven't verified that. 

1N-2♣ // 2M-3N shows 4OM. (but if the previous assumption is correct..it also shows 0-2M.. or not interested in finding a 5-3 fit)

[straube]

downagain, on 2010-November-18, 00:12, said:

3♣ = no 5M

3♦ = (31)(54)
3♥ = 4♠
3♠ = 4♥
3N = To Play

3M = 5M

I've seen this, too, and I thought I must be missing 1N-2N, 3D. Do they really not use that?

I use Puppet Stayman, too, but 1N-2N, 3D shows an unspecified 4333 (a la Klinger) but this isn't really necessary because responder can show a 4-cd major over a 3C rebid and then retreat to
3N with a 4333.

I'd like a way for responder to show interest in a 5-3 major suit fit without opener having to show a 5-cd major but haven't figured out a way to do that starting with 2N.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

mgoetze, on 2010-November-18, 05:55, said:

When you are writing a post, there is a sneaky little button with a question mark in a blue circle, in the same row as the "other styles" and "fonts" drop-downs.

Ty, mg

I got it now
And ty too, downagain

[Neobas]

I came up with a little something the other day, but it was only just after I learnt 1NT-2NT could be Puppet so do not laugh please

1NT-2NT;

3♣ 5cm

3♦ 4cM

3M 5cM

3NT 33(34) or (32)44

If you play 3♣ as 5cm there you could play 4♣ after 3NT as Minor Suit Ask:
1NT-2NT; 3NT-4♣;

4♦ 33(34)
4♥ 3244
4♠ 2344

Though admittedly it might give away too much information and a minor fit finding system after Meckwell's 3♣ might work better. I personally play 3M as a singleton M, 3coM and (54) minor, which I guess is inferior but pretty simple to remember What do you think?

[Zelandakh]

If you are going down this route then it makes more sense for 3C to show 5m332 or (32)44 and reserve 3NT for 4m333. Then after a 3D relay you have 3M for the corresponding minor and 3NT for (32)44.

[mtvesuvius]

The general purpose of Puppet in these auctions is to disclose as little information as possible, and reach 3N/4M as fast as possible giving the least information. Therefore I don't like having to describe my minor-suit holdings when we will usually be playing 3N anyway.

[Free]

The volcano is right, puppet stayman is designed to get to 3NT/4M quickly, that's why you don't care about jumping and you want to keep as much information as possible to yourself. If you want full relays you have to start lower. Showing a 5 card minor (or any other minor suit holding) is useless. Also note that MW use 3♣ just to deny a 5 card M. Regular puppet stayman uses the first step to show a 4 card M because responder can still have 4-4M, with 4-4 MW starts with a regular Stayman.

Compare the auctions:
Regular PS: 1NT-3♣-3♦-3♥-3NT
Meckwell PS: 1NT-2NT-3♣-3♥-3NT
In the first auction opps know about a 4 card ♥ in opener's hand, in the 2nd auction they know nothing.

[raspeball]

MickyB, on 2010-November-18, 00:01, said:

I am interested in continuations over 1NT:2NT and how it affects continuations over 1NT:2C. Does anyone know how Meckwell play it?

Thanks

Bringing life to this old conversation. I am interested if anybody have some thoughts on what NT structure fits, if you want to use 1nt-2nt as puppet.
My initial thoughts has been (Just copying some existing treatments).

1nt-2♣
2♦/♥-2♠=5 card spade. Invite.

1nt-2♦
2♥-2♠=Forcing 1 round. Invitational 5 card ♥

Normal transfers after 2♦ and 2♥=Normal transfers (But with game forcing transfer for responders second bid: 1nt-2♦;2♥-2nt=Hearts and clubs. gameforcing)

1nt-2♠=Range ask or clubs (Weak or gameforcing). Responder shows short suits

1nt-2nt=Puppet ala this tread.

1nt-3♣=Diamonds. Weak or gameforcing

1nt-3♦=? One option is 4-1 in majors and 4-4 in minors (3♥ from opener asks where the short suit is)

1nt-3♥=5-5 game invitational

........Sidenote:
.......1nt-2♥
.......2♠-3♦=5-5 majors, gameforcing(I like this sequence since it leaves room for opener to bid 3nt with no/poor fit .......for majors (2-2 in majors), or responder to show a void:

.......1nt-2♥
.......2♠-3♦
.......3♥(Sets hearts)-4♣/4♦=5-5 majors, void in suit bid)

1nt-3♠=5-5 minors, gameforcing.

There are some holes in my system:

If responder have 4 spades and 5 hearts with invitational strength there is no bid to show that, so i have to improvise and choose the smalles lie (Use garbage stayman)
Invitational hands with clubs or diamonds.
+Probably quite a few others

[The Pud]

If responder have 4 spades and 5 hearts with invitational strength there is no bid to show that, so i have to improvise and choose the smalles lie (Use garbage stayman)

- I play 1N - 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥ as 5♥4♠ invitational. If you're 5-4 majors, transfer and pass

[raspeball]

The Pud, on 2020-May-07, 06:20, said:

If responder have 4 spades and 5 hearts with invitational strength there is no bid to show that, so i have to improvise and choose the smalles lie (Use garbage stayman)

- I play 1N - 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥ as 5♥4♠ invitational. If you're 5-4 majors, transfer and pass

Ok. Yes, then you dont have a problem. But I usually uses this sequence as weak with play:
1N - 2♣
2♦ - 2♥ as 4♥+4♠ and weak (Opener passes or bids 2♠).

According to Wikipedia I gave the wrong explanation of what i play(According to Wikipedia my version is called crawling stayman).I think most of my partners would not be willing to give up 2♥ in this sequence as weak.

[dokoko]

raspeball, on 2020-May-07, 09:02, said:

According to Wikipedia I gave the wrong explanation of what i play.

Has "Wikipedia" won any tournaments so far?