[AL78]

MPs, this was a novice playing with a more experienced player (NS). I think they were playing Acol, three weak twos, and a weak NT.

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4♠ made +1 for a NS bottom after the ♣A lead, somehow they lost a heart trick, I don't know how (maybe North led a heart when in with the ♠A). If they hold it to 10 tricks, it would still only be worth 4 MP's out of 22. Several others were in 4♦ and 5♦ making 9, 10 or 11 tricks, one defended 5♠X-2. The question is, does North have enough to act over the preempt? Kind of ironic that West preempts but it is NS that need to find the good diamond sacrifice.

[Cyberyeti]

N has an easy double, I would expect 4♠-X-P-4N(2 places to play)-P-5♦ if S is brave.

[FelicityR]

Cyberyeti, on 2019-November-22, 05:31, said:

N has an easy double, I would expect 4♠-X-P-4N(2 places to play)-P-5♦ if S is brave.

Yes, I agree. But the question is should East be equally brave and bid 5♠ after North doubles? East is bringing only one trick to the party with the ♥A, but knows that both opponents must have a fit somewhere in the other three suits given that he/she has three ♠s in hand. I think it is a close call between a -500 and -800 sacrifice. What do others think?

[KingCovert]

FelicityR, on 2019-November-22, 07:02, said:

Yes, I agree. But the question is should East be equally brave and bid 5♠ after North doubles? East is bringing only one trick to the party with the ♥A, but knows that both opponents must have a fit somewhere in the other three suits given that he/she has three ♠s in hand. I think it is a close call between a -500 and -800 sacrifice. What do others think?

It's tough holding that A♥. 4♠ should deny any outside aces, but, it doesn't inherently mean that the hand is completely hopelessly weak. You could just have 3 tricks on defense.

If that A♥ was a K♥, I'd probably bid 5♠ even if North had passed. The opponents are surely making slam then with such high probability, I'll pay the price of being wrong... And, of course, I may now have telegraphed that slam is making. But, maybe they play in the wrong suit if they have to start competing at 5♠.

[mikeh]

North has a clear double of 4S. One can play such doubles as pure takeout, but it is more common to play the double as 'cards'. My rule of thumb is that a direct double of 4M shows roughly the values for a strong 1N, but can include shortness in the major.

Advancer is expected to pass with nothing to say...sometimes this means they make, but often 4M x'd making is better than bidding 5m and getting doubled...there is a reason people preempt!

Advancer is expected to pull the double with a long suit, and to bid 4N with '2 places to play'. I'm not convinced that 4Nis the best call with this south hand, due not so much to the length discrepancy....5-4/4-5 is fine...but because of the strength discrepancy. I think a 5-3 diamond fit will play MUCH better than a 4-3 club fit, and about as well as a 4-4 club fit.

[nige1]

AL78 writes '4♠ made +1 for a NS bottom after the ♣A lead, somehow they lost a heart trick, I don't know how (maybe North led a heart when in with the ♠A). If they hold it to 10 tricks, it would still only be worth 4 MP's out of 22. Several others were in 4♦ and 5♦ making 9, 10 or 11 tricks, one defended 5♠X-2. The question is, does North have enough to act over the preempt? Kind of ironic that West preempts but it is NS that need to find the good diamond sacrifice.'
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

IMO, North should double West's 4♠ opener. Then, after (4♠) X (Pass) ??, I rank
1. Pass. No six card suit and ♠K appears to be a defensive value. (Hence I score worse than everybody else)
2. 4N. Two places to play.
3. 5♦.Perhaps South should make the decision himself, as MikeH recommends.

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[kuhchung]

same as nige1 and OP. i'm getting a terrible score here too

[AL78]

nige1, on 2019-November-22, 12:16, said:

AL78 writes '4♠ made +1 for a NS bottom after the ♣A lead, somehow they lost a heart trick, I don't know how (maybe North led a heart when in with the ♠A). If they hold it to 10 tricks, it would still only be worth 4 MP's out of 22. Several others were in 4♦ and 5♦ making 9, 10 or 11 tricks, one defended 5♠X-2. The question is, does North have enough to act over the preempt? Kind of ironic that West preempts but it is NS that need to find the good diamond sacrifice.'
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

IMO, North should double West's 4♠ opener. Then, after (4♠) X (Pass) ??, I rank
1. Pass. No six card suit and ♠K appears to be a defensive value. (Hence I score worse than everybody else)
2. 4N. Two places to play.
3. 5♦.Perhaps South should make the decision himself, as MikeH recommends.

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I wouldn't class the stiff king under the pre-emptor as a defensive value. Either declarer has an entry to dummy to play a spade through you, or declarer doesn't have an entry to dummy and will bang down the spade ace. Partner needs to hold Ax(x..) or Qx(x..) (Jxx would work as well) for the king to be worth a trick. I'm not sure how likely that is.