Edit: My partner and I were playing a basic 2/1 system (15-17 NT) where a rebid of 2NT by opener after a 1M response shows 18-19 balanced
Another Awkward Hand to Bid
#1
Posted 2019-May-30, 04:26
Edit: My partner and I were playing a basic 2/1 system (15-17 NT) where a rebid of 2NT by opener after a 1M response shows 18-19 balanced
#2
Posted 2019-May-30, 05:24
#3
Posted 2019-May-30, 05:28
If 2NT is some kind of Lebensohl type bid with 3C forcing, I bid 2NT to get to 3♣. Or possibly the 4th suit is used as the weak bid.
#4
Posted 2019-May-30, 06:44
Tramticket, on 2019-May-30, 05:28, said:
If 2NT is some kind of Lebensohl type bid with 3C forcing, I bid 2NT to get to 3♣.
The way we play 2NT Moderateur/Lebehsohl it denies weak 5-card ♥ (which would be 2♥) and any other bid (including 3♣) is game forcing.
#5
Posted 2019-May-30, 07:59
Your next bid is a matter of how you bid over reverses and what hands you'd reverse on (soft vs. strong reverses). First of all, your hand is too weak for a positive response. If you and partner have agreed to rebid a hand with a 5 card suit no matter how weak, then 2 ♥ is right. Otherwise, make the potential "drop dead" bid you've decided on.
If you've never discussed bidding continuations over reverses with your partner, then maybe just bidding 2 ♥ is right. It, at least, takes up the least bidding space allowing partner to continue telling what the reverse is about.
3 ♣ as a non-forcing weak bid has been passe for years. It's become more common in recent years to use the preference as a positive bid and use some sort of Lebensohl structure for sign off (especially with soft reverses) or just use 2 NT as a potentially weak bid.
Most of my partners and I prefer to play strong reverses and use 2 NT or fourth suit whichever is cheaper as the potential drop dead bid. I'd bid 2 ♠ wit these players.
I do play with 1 excellent player who likes to play softer reverses and we use Ingbermann as the potential sign off. I'd bid 2 NT Ingbermann with this player.
Don't pass a reverse!! Partner's hand is still unlimited.
#6
Posted 2019-May-30, 09:12
#7
Posted 2019-May-30, 10:03
#8
Posted 2019-May-30, 10:41
Cyberyeti, on 2019-May-30, 09:12, said:
Original post has been edited to reflect the system we were playing that evening. Basic 2/1
#9
Posted 2019-May-30, 14:16
In the games I play in my neck of ACBLland, Lebensohl over a reverse is uncommon; most pairs use Ingberman (cheaper of the fourth suit and 2NT is the only weak, non-GF rebid by responder) or have both 2M and 2NT as non-GF options. But how your partner in your area would likely take your bids of 2♥, 2♠, 2NT, and 3♣ absent discussion I have no idea. If I were at the table and had to guess, I'd probably go with the cheapest natural bid, in this case, 2♥.
#10
Posted 2019-May-30, 15:50
Leaving that to one side, pass is 'out' at any form of scoring, if only because it is entirely possible that partner (a) has only 3 diamonds and/or (b) has a great hand in support of hearts.
Imagine x AKx AQxx AKxxx
Maybe you'd open something other than 1C, but I and many, many other players would open 1C, playing 2/1, expecting to rebid 2D over most responses, including 1H.
Now, obviously that sort of hand is improbable, not least because the opps are silent despite having 10 spades, but there can be many other hands where passing is silly.
To me the next call is very easy: one bids 2H.
2H says nothing at all other than that we have 5 or more hearts. It neither shows nor denies values: it is cheap and convenient. Having to do something else with 5 hearts and values needlessly consumes valuable bidding space, and having to do something else when one has a weak hand is at least as unsound. Bidding space is a concept that is rarely discussed, yet all players who design successful bidding methods are not only aware of the concept but give it a great deal of consideration. Here, there is (as best as I can tell) no significant downside to using 2H as a 'noise', saying nothing beyond 'we have 5+ hearts'.
What one does next depends on what partner does and whether you play what I describe (iirc, I haven't read my own article in years) as a 'strong reverse'.
Btw, the OP wrote as if she saw this responding hand as a very bad hand. I think that most experienced tournament players, at least in NA, stretch to respond to 1C. For example, I would always bid 1H over partner's 1C if I held xxx KJxxx xxx xx. Actually, I'd bid on less than that: I have responded on a 2 count a few time. xx Qxxxxx xxx xx: it is losing bridge, in my opinion, to pass 1C (now, we have methods, such that we can get out in 3H is he bids 2N, as one example, and he will pass 2H if he rebids 1N and we bid 2H). Once in a while you make your situation worse, but most of the time, you either improve the situation directly or you make it very difficult for the opps. And it isn't as if passing 1C means you are in a great spot
#11
Posted 2019-May-31, 03:29
Pass only in a rubber partnering Mrs Guggenheim.
Maarten Baltussen
#12
Posted 2019-May-31, 05:41
#13
Posted 2019-May-31, 06:00
FelicityR, on 2019-May-31, 05:41, said:
I think that 3♦ showing the 6-5 shape, but requiring preference at the four level, is too much. Partner has not shown any interest in the minors
An invitational raise to 3♥ can't promise more than HX and looks right to me. Yes it will lead to an ugly result on this hand.
#14
Posted 2019-May-31, 06:28
#15
Posted 2019-May-31, 06:43
FelicityR, on 2019-May-31, 05:41, said:
Maybe 3♦ 4♦ 4NT 5♦ pass, assuming 0314 and no Kickback?
#16
Posted 2019-May-31, 10:28
#17
Posted 2019-May-31, 10:45
2H looks to me to be a pretty normal contract in a quality field.
#18
Posted 2019-May-31, 10:58
North, holding a minimum reverse, completes the relay to three clubs and it gets played there. Holding a high-end reverse, all other bids are game forcing.
More on Ingberman click here.
And of course (as I always nag), you and partner can practice it at a BBO bidding or teaching table using one of the constraint files I authored for this convention. Click here for that.
#20
Posted 2019-May-31, 11:49
Tramticket, on 2019-May-31, 06:00, said:
An invitational raise to 3♥ can't promise more than HX and looks right to me. Yes it will lead to an ugly result on this hand.
An invitational raise to 3H does not exist, and absolutely would/should not be made on Ax.
1C 1H 2D 2H 3H is how one bids, for example, x Axx AQxx AKJxx, and is forcing.
The actual opening hand is a clear 3D rebid by opener, which (in my methods) removes the force. 5=6 hands, shown via reverses, have a much lower low end than do 4=5 or 4=6 reverse hands. So the question here, for responder, is whether to bid again with those 3 diamond honours and a ruffing value in clubs. I think it close. At mps, I think pass is a reasonable shot at seeking the precious plus, but at imps I would raise, since game is pretty good opposite x x AQxxx AKxxxx and similar.
5D is an interesting contract, especially on the quite plausible heart lead.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
After a reverse, there are various possible rebid schemes, for responder (for example, Blackout , where the cheaper of 2N and 4th suit shows weakness).
I prefer Lebensohl., for simplicity and consistency i.e. after partner's 2-level reverse...
-- 2♦/♥/♠ = NAT N/F. For example, here, 2♠ would show a weak misfit like ♠ J x x x x ♥ J x x x x x ♦ x x ♣ x.
-- 2N = PUP to 3♣. Then 3♦ = NAT S/O, 3♥/♠ = NAT INV.
-- 3♣/♦/♥/♠ = F/G.
If Lebensohl is agreed, then I rank
1. 2♥ = N/F.
2. 2N = PUP..