[pstansbu]

Playing the other night an opponent pointed out that I tended to fiddle with cards from previously played tricks and asked me if I could stop doing this. I wasn't aware of doing this and happy to stop out of courtesy. By "fiddling" I mean resting a hand on top and running a finger over the edge - not doing anything noisy or rearraging the cards (e.g. to change the layout of those won/lost) and just doing this whilst thinking of the card to play. Just curious if this is just a matter of courtesy / etiquette or anything more to the request?

[lamford]

pstansbu, on 2017-April-12, 11:00, said:

Playing the other night an opponent pointed out that I tended to fiddle with cards from previously played tricks and asked me if I could stop doing this. I wasn't aware of doing this and happy to stop out of courtesy. By "fiddling" I mean resting a hand on top and running a finger over the edge - not doing anything noisy or rearranging the cards (e.g. to change the layout of those won/lost) and just doing this whilst thinking of the card to play. Just curious if this is just a matter of courtesy / etiquette or anything more to the request?

The former I think. Law 74A2 states: A player should carefully avoid any remark or action that might cause annoyance or embarrassment to another player or might interfere with the enjoyment of the game. As you say, you were happy to stop out of courtesy, so that should be that.

[mycroft]

I also tend to play with my quitted tricks - mostly to "carefully set them" like a proper person should. And re-"set them" as new tricks come in. I can stop if people have an issue.

The two issues I can see (besides it being a habit that is irritating to a particular opponent - like staring at me when it's my turn to call is to me), are:

• if you're running your hand on the edge, what stops you from lifting it quickly to see a quitted trick you are no longer allowed to see? Do I have to watch out for that all the time (or glims, or...)?
  
• maybe, just maybe, you're running your fingers over some trick that it's important for your partner to remember. I'm sure you're not, but again, should I have to watch all the time to ensure it is just "random"?

But I'm paid to be paranoid. I'm betting it was just something that bothered that person, and since it's not explicitly allowed or required, it's something they should be able to ask you to not do.

[Vampyr]

mycroft, on 2017-April-12, 12:50, said:

The two issues I can see (besides it being a habit that is irritating to a particular opponent - like staring at me when it's my turn to call is to me), are:

• if you're running your hand on the edge, what stops you from lifting it quickly to see a quitted trick you are no longer allowed to see? Do I have to watch out for that all the time (or glims, or...)?
  
• maybe, just maybe, you're running your fingers over some trick that it's important for your partner to remember. I'm sure you're not, but again, should I have to watch all the time to ensure it is just "random"?

If I understand correctly what the OP was doing, he had the quitted tricks in a stack. So specific tricks would be very difficult to distinguish.

[lamford]

mycroft, on 2017-April-12, 12:50, said:

maybe, just maybe, you're running your fingers over some trick that it's important for your partner to remember.

Maybe, just maybe, you're scoring the top of an ace so that it can be identified by you from the backs of cards next week ... There are plenty of better ways to cheat though!

[mycroft]

Argh, yes, I forgot about marking cards. Lovely, now I have to worry about that as well. I have to admit, my habit of cards-under-the-table works well for that as well as the hand-clockers.

[barmar]

mycroft, on 2017-April-12, 12:50, said:

I also tend to play with my quitted tricks - mostly to "carefully set them" like a proper person should. And re-"set them" as new tricks come in. I can stop if people have an issue.

I find it hard to imagine anyone objecting to you neatening them up if they get messy.

What the OP seems to be talking about is constant nervous fidgeting with the quitted tricks. First of all, the Laws require you to lay out your quitted tricks in a row, pointing in the directions corresponding to who won each trick. Law 65:

Quote

B. Keeping Track of the Ownership of Tricks 
1. If the player’s side has won the trick, the card is pointed lengthwise toward his partner. 
2. If the opponents have won the trick, the card is pointed lengthwise toward the opponents. 
3. A player may draw attention to a card pointed incorrectly, but this right expires when his 
side leads or plays to the following trick. If done later Law 16B may apply. 
C. Orderliness                                        
Each player arranges his own cards in an orderly overlapping row in the sequence played, so as 
to permit review of the play after its completion, if necessary to determine the number of tricks 
won by each side or the order in which the cards were played. 

So if you're just stacking up your quitted tricks, you're violating this law.

There's no specific law about fiddling with cards, but I agree that it's poor etiquette, and if it annoys the opponents you should try to avoid it.

[pstansbu]

Many useful remarks, I was placing my cards correctly rather than stacking (but hadn't realised the legal requirement around this) and they weren't in need of straightening (so no excuse really). Also the way my hand was placed I wouldn't have seen a card had I raised the edge, but partner might so that's a risk.

Apparently it's not something I've done before so hopefully have nipped it in the bud. Funnily enough I did notice (much as you notice similar cars if you have changed model or make) other people doing something similar a few times on the same night.

[mycroft]

Barmar: the way I neaten the row is closer to "pathologically perfect" than "fix get messy". Each card exactly one border from the next, rows of lost tricks in alternating high-low order, 93 degree angles not allowed, ... Which, given my inability to neaten any other part of my life, is a bit odd. I can in fact see it being irritating. Don't remember being called on it, though.

I thought the subtlety came through like a hammer (yeah, okay) that it's not just "neaten". Sorry.

[barmar]

mycroft, on 2017-April-12, 16:25, said:

Barmar: the way I neaten the row is closer to "pathologically perfect" than "fix get messy". Each card exactly one border from the next, rows of lost tricks in alternating high-low order, 93 degree angles not allowed, ... Which, given my inability to neaten any other part of my life, is a bit odd. I can in fact see it being irritating. Don't remember being called on it, though.

Your opponents may be too polite to say anything.

We used to have a player at our club who was fastidious about shuffling his cards before putting them back in the board, he would riffle them 6-7 times. He probably took about 10 seconds, and it seemed like forever; I sometimes wanted to grab the cards out of his hands, but I never said anything.

[blackshoe]

barmar, on 2017-April-13, 08:13, said:

We used to have a player at our club who was fastidious about shuffling his cards before putting them back in the board, he would riffle them 6-7 times. He probably took about 10 seconds, and it seemed like forever; I sometimes wanted to grab the cards out of his hands, but I never said anything.

Nor should you. Ten seconds may seem like forever, but it's not even close.

[barmar]

blackshoe, on 2017-April-13, 08:20, said:

Nor should you. Ten seconds may seem like forever, but it's not even close.

If he takes more time shuffling his cards than North spends filling out the traveller and the players look at the previous scores on the traveller, he's taking too long.