[A2003]

Playing standard bridge

---

What is the bid here now?

[helene_t]

3c

[eagles123]

Helene is right - this is the classic "death hand"

[Kaitlyn S]

Agree with 3C. What other option is there?

I would presume universal agreement - the thing there might not be agreement on is what to do over 3NT by partner after you bid 3C

[helene_t]

Kaitlyn S, on 2017-March-11, 17:18, said:

the thing there might not be agreement on is what to do over 3NT by partner after you bid 3C

Unanimous agreements are of course rare, but pass after 3NT is pretty clear IMO.

[the hog]

Kaitlyn S, on 2017-March-11, 17:18, said:

Agree with 3C. What other option is there?

I would presume universal agreement - the thing there might not be agreement on is what to do over 3NT by partner after you bid 3C

Actually many options. You can play a 2NT gadget which many play, you can play Gazilli or your 3C bid can even be a totally artificial bid over which 3D asks. To ask "What other option is there?" is a very shortsighted view. An obvious pass after a 3NT bid by the way.

[mr1303]

I remember Fred's rule about jump shifts control the auction. This being the case, 3NT is a strong message that 3NT is the right place to play, so pass is right. Over 3D and 3H I can bid 3S, and 4D over 4C, and I've described my hand well.

[mike777]

I can understand 3c but another option is risk a natural 2c bid here. AS others have stated this is the well known "BW death hand"

[Flem72]

Prefer 2♣ forcing one round, K-S style, R must rebid major with 5+, other suits natch, 2N->3♣ to get out at the 3 level. Opener in this case, with a rock crusher, would refuse the relay and bid 3S or 3N.

[miamijd]

There is one other well-known option no one has mentioned: 2H. If partner raises hearts, that means he has 5 spades (with 44, he'd have bid 1H, not 1S), so you just correct to spades and partner should be able to figure it out.

If he bids 2S, great - raise to 4. If he bids 2NT (four spades, weakness), then you can either raise to 3NT and hope your 2H bid fetches a club lead or else rebid 3C. If partner bids 3C, you can try 5C. And so on.

Cheers,
Mike

[msjennifer]

Flem72, on 2017-March-12, 14:21, said:

Prefer 2♣ forcing one round, K-S style, R must rebid major with 5+, other suits natch, 2N->3♣ to get out at the 3 level. Opener in this case, with a rock crusher, would refuse the relay and bid 3S or 3N.

One will have to change the whole system if one says that 2C is Forcing for for one round.

[msjennifer]

This is a hand which depicts the disadvantage of playing weak twos.However,one has to abide by it.I shall ask one question here.What would be the rebid if the hand was AQX,A,AKJxxx, xxx.Big problem now! I,therefore,would prefer to rebid 3 Spade on the given holding reserving the 3C bid for Axx,x,AKJxxx,AQx.The spade support is good enough for bidding 3S..

[Caitlynne]

There is no truly descriptive bid, just 4 seriously flawed choices:

3D - with 18 HCP, you are a little heavy for this. The fact that this bid fails to reveal your excellent 3 card support for partner's major suit is also a huge drawback.

3S - in a way this is a slight underbid, but its huge flaw is that it absolutely positively guarantees 4 card spade support. AKQ tripleton is not good enough, let alone AQx.

2C - very much an underbid, but rarely passed, so a reasonable manufactured gamble. If partner preferences to 2D, you can try 3S next. If partner bids something more descriptively helpful (e.g., 2S or 2NT) you have an easy time of it.

3C - the manufactured bid for those with no stomach for 2C. But this is an absolute 100% game force and you really don't have enough for that either, although you are close.

My guess is that most will choose 3C as the least problematic of the bunch.

(A better solution is to not be playing standard!)

[july1982xx]

3D is the best bid here showing partner lenght in diamonds good hand around (17)18-19(20) HCP .

[Tramticket]

july1982xx, on 2017-March-13, 10:31, said:

3D is the best bid here showing partner lenght in diamonds good hand around (17)18-19(20) HCP .

3D is also non-forcing in all standard methods that I am aware of. You can easily miss a 4S contract when partner holds a minimum response and good 5-card spade suit.

I would bid 3C unless playing with my regular partner (she would never pass a 2C bid).

[rmnka447]

I'm a 3 C bidder with this hand also. Just too good for 3 D.

If playing updated K/S, then a 2 C bid would be proper. It shows a hand with reversing values, is forcing, and guarantees a rebid.

[mikestar13]

Caitlynne, on 2017-March-13, 08:27, said:

There is no truly descriptive bid, just 4 seriously flawed choices:

3D - with 18 HCP, you are a little heavy for this. The fact that this bid fails to reveal your excellent 3 card support for partner's major suit is also a huge drawback.

3S - in a way this is a slight underbid, but its huge flaw is that it absolutely positively guarantees 4 card spade support. AKQ tripleton is not good enough, let alone AQx.

2C - very much an underbid, but rarely passed, so a reasonable manufactured gamble. If partner preferences to 2D, you can try 3S next. If partner bids something more descriptively helpful (e.g., 2S or 2NT) you have an easy time of it.

3C - the manufactured bid for those with no stomach for 2C. But this is an absolute 100% game force and you really don't have enough for that either, although you are close.

My guess is that most will choose 3C as the least problematic of the bunch.

(A better solution is to not be playing standard!)

I really agree with this analysis. Not playing standard may not be a solution in itself,though. Playing Precision, this hand is an easy 1♣ opener.. But change ♣A to ♣2 and we Precisionistas have the death hand problem--just too good for a single raise (given the crap we open on), don't want to jump raise spades without four (and hides the diamonds worse than in standard), while 3♦ has the same risk of missing the possible 5-3 spade fit.The advantage is that using a 2NT gadget is less costly than in standard (how often do we want to rebid a natural 2NT?)--but the partnership must still discuss and practice the sequences.

[nullve]

A2003, on 2017-March-11, 15:57, said:

What is the bid here now?

2♥, also with

AQx
-----
AKJxxxx
Axx,

for the reasons miamijd gave.

[mr1303]

I really think 2H is poor here, since partner will count heart values as positive should he have slam interest, when in reality heart values are not wanted.

[nullve]

mr1303, on 2017-March-14, 04:29, said:

I really think 2H is poor here, since partner will count heart values as positive should he have slam interest, when in reality heart values are not wanted.

Well, 1♦-1♠; 3♣-4♣ is a draw by stalemate.