[Kaitlyn S]

duplicate post

[Joe_Old]

Remember that you are in fourth seat. The rules for opening in fourth are different than in the first three, because you never pre-empt (why go minus when you can just pass the hand out?). Therefore, the 2, 3 and 4 level are reserved for picture bids. I am certain that even GIB recognizes a 2M opening as a six card suit and minimum opening values (I've checked). This is absolutely standard in all popular American systems.

In fourth seat the common understanding among east coast tournament players is that 4 spades would show a distributional hand with long spades, 10 near certain tricks, but insufficient defensive tricks (outside the spade suit) to open 2 clubs. That's a perfect picture of Shaky44's hand. Responder should cue bid with spade support and any first round control, or any 2 first round controls.

Responder can confidently proceed even with no HCP if he has trump support or appropriate controls. As stated before, slam is near lay down opposite xxxx xxx xxxx Ax, or Axx xxxxxx xxx x, or xxxx xxxxx xxxx void, or a stronger hand like x Axxxx xxxxx Ax.

[shaky44]

Joe_Old, on 2016-December-22, 21:47, said:

Remember that you are in fourth seat. The rules for opening in fourth are different than in the first three, because you never pre-empt (why go minus when you can just pass the hand out?). Therefore, the 2, 3 and 4 level are reserved for picture bids. I am certain that even GIB recognizes a 2M opening as a six card suit and minimum opening values (I've checked). This is absolutely standard in all popular American systems.

In fourth seat the common understanding among east coast tournament players is that 4 spades would show a distributional hand with long spades, 10 near certain tricks, but insufficient defensive tricks (outside the spade suit) to open 2 clubs. That's a perfect picture of Shaky44's hand. Responder should cue bid with spade support and any first round control, or any 2 first round controls.

Responder can confidently proceed even with no HCP if he has trump support or appropriate controls. As stated before, slam is near lay down opposite xxxx xxx xxxx Ax, or Axx xxxxxx xxx x, or xxxx xxxxx xxxx void, or a stronger hand like x Axxxx xxxxx Ax.

I believe 4S was the most popular opening bid, which "partner" passed (with both black aces). EDIT: I went back and counted, opening bids were distributed as follows: 6x4S, 6x1S, and 3x2C

GIB aside, how should the bidding go in your scenario when responder has both black aces?

4S-5C-?-?

[shaky44]

eagles123, on 2016-December-22, 04:48, said:

I think the chances of it going all pass when we've got a wildly distributional hand like this are extremely remote. I'd rather take that small risk by opening 1s than imo totally misbidding our hand by opening 2C

Yeah, I think this is the bit of reasoning I missed when bidding this hand.

[Joe_Old]

shaky44, on 2016-December-23, 04:32, said:

I believe 4S was the most popular opening bid, which "partner" passed (with both black aces). EDIT: I went back and counted, opening bids were distributed as follows: 6x4S, 6x1S, and 3x2C

GIB aside, how should the bidding go in your scenario when responder has both black aces?

4S-5C-?-?

All that matters are controls. Bid them up the line (opener bids 5♦ on your example). At some point (usually) opener chooses between 5, 6and 7 of his suit. NT is almost never an option because of the ambiguity between voids and aces.

[shaky44]

Joe_Old, on 2016-December-23, 07:33, said:

All that matters are controls. Bid them up the line (opener bids 5♦ on your example). At some point (usually) opener chooses between 5, 6 and 7 of his suit. NT is almost never an option because of the ambiguity between voids and aces.

I guess responder can't really show trump ace in this sequence:

S: 4S
N: 5C (indicates club control)
S: 5D (indicates diamond control)
N: 5S??? (probably indicates no further controls to show???)
S: 6S??? (gambling that diamonds will run)


The 4NT bid to show specific also makes it difficult to figure out which aces partner has on this hand:

S: 4NT
N: 5NT (two aces)
S: 6S??? (impossible to know which two aces, plus already gambling that diamonds will run)

The 4S opening does have the benefit of finding out if partner has any help in trump.