[Zelandakh]

 enjoyelife, on 2016-October-12, 07:03, said:

Honestly speaking, most players don't fully understand contract bridge is of cooperation.

Hello enjoylife and welcome to the BBO forums.

Perhaps you misunderstand the idea behind a 2♥ overcall here. A double shows 9 of your cards, which is pretty good, but nonetheless hides a key feature in the 4th and 5th heart. A heart overcall alone surely shows only 5 cards, which on the surface might seem selfish. However, once followed up by a double you are essentially able to get over approximately 11 cards from your hand including the key features of spade shortage and 5 hearts, which actually improves the level of cooperation between yourself and partner.

You are new here so can be forgiven for thinking that the level is low but in general the BBF posters are a fairly knowledgeable bunch so it would be wise not to assume stupidity in the first instance to a position taken by more than one or 2 respondents. More likely there is a point behind the position that you have not understood and you should use it as a learning opportunity.

Here the choice between double and 2♥ is a close one. It essentially boils down to whether you are willing to double on the second round if it comes back in 3♠. If you are then 2♥ is the more descriptive call; if not then we probably have to double now to avoid losing the opportunity forever. That there are differences of opinion on this is not surprising but to think that either group is making their decision based on selfishness or stupidity is not only insulting but rather completely missing the point. I recommend not calling any other BBF poster stupid (or selfish) again until you are able to spot the crux of the issue on every thread without any doubt about being wrong...

[Zelandakh]

 billw55, on 2016-October-12, 08:40, said:

I also note that you are the lone vote for other. What specifically do you advocate?

Jinksy voted for Other, presumably to be able to see the poll results without having to make the extra click and without risking skewing the results. That is a common trick used by OPs. I personally have nothing to advocate besides the obvious double and 2♥ as outlined in the previous (apparently cross-posted) post.

[billw55]

 Zelandakh, on 2016-October-12, 08:51, said:

Jinksy voted for Other, presumably to be able to see the poll results without having to make the extra click and without risking skewing the results. That is a common trick used by OPs. I personally have nothing to advocate besides the obvious double and 2♥ as outlined in the previous (apparently cross-posted) post.

Yeah I got that crossed up somehow, fixed my previous post.

[Thiros]

 Jinksy, on 2016-October-12, 04:31, said:

I also don't have a strong feeling either way, but I would add one more for bidding:

- 2H is moderately preemptive. It's conceivable they'll want to bid the minors.

Indeed, which is why I'm doubling. 2♥ is moderately preemptive, and it's conceivable we'll want to bid the minors. I can easily imagine overcalling 2♥ and playing there when we have a diamond slam.

[ggwhiz]

I had another thought on general approach. I've seen quite a few opponents pass a 2♥ overcall with shortness and a couple of Aces or otherwise constructive values.

That (95% or so) NEVER happens in my partnership but if it's your style it's a different degree of risk.

[Karma]

2H. Show my real suit and values. Not strong enough to X and bid H later.

with one less king in a weaker hand I would double.

Another problem will come later. If it is our hand then the problem is what to do over a likely 4S sacrifice.

[Karma]

2H. Show my real suit and values. Not strong enough to X and bid H later.

with one less king in a weaker hand I would double.

Another problem will come later. If it is our hand then the problem is what to do over a likely 4S sacrifice.

[rmnka447]

I'm a 2 ♥ bidder planning to double on next round, if possible.

After doubling to start, rebidding ♥ freely would show a much stronger hand. So if you double, you risk losing the ♥ suit completely (by not bidding it) or overstating your values by doubling (and bidding it). Certainly, I'd like the ♥ to be a tad better for a 2 level overcall, but they are decent. If they were much less, say - Axxxx KQxx Axxx, then double would be right.

I'll concede that if LHO bids 3 ♠, it might be more difficult to double on the second round. But it also may be difficult for partner to compete further over any ♠ raise with ♥ if I double.

[iandayre]

Glad to see no one passes. That would be bizarre. Prefer 2H then double next round to the immediate double. 4H on 5-3 could be the only game that makes.

[Jinksy]

The full hand is far too silly to demonstrate anything, but here it is for posterity:

---

After getting the most tedious bunch of balanced crap I've ever had in a single session, I picked up the east hand and thought 'finally, I get some action'...

Somehow our teammates managed to reach 5♦x. I was afraid to ask.

[mycroft]

There are times when I think and there are times when I'm stupid and follow my teachers. This is one of the latter.

Since double-and-bid-hearts doesn't show this hand, hearts-and-double has to (and can). I grant that if partner has the death hand it's turning -260 into -470 but I've done that before.

Yes, I hate bidding on that suit - if it goes p-p-X do I XX/2NT or ride it out and hope it doesn't get floated? - but I'm trying to stop being the Last Great Bridge Pessimist.

Given that it's a post, of course, I bet "the death hand" is right, and you win only by going -110. Massive use of UI there, I realize.

[Edit after seeing above: oh, *that* trap. I expected the same, but with North and South having one each of East's spades]

[neilkaz]

I flipped a coin and it came up 2♥. I flipped it later and it came up X so I changed my vote. I have no preference between the two.

[gszes]

 TylerE, on 2016-October-11, 21:33, said:

Passing is obviously right, because this wouldn't be posted if either 2H or X worked.

there we go make sure you keeping offering this type of "help" to those trying to learn

[gszes]

Lets see a show of hands --- How many here have any clue where this bidding is going? That question alone might send you in the right direction.

x

This is by far the most flexible bid allowing for a wide range of contracts/sacrifices/penalties. W/o the aces (a logical fear of having my x converted to penalty) a 2h bid might seem like a better choice due to the lack of quick tricks but here we have little/nothing to fear from playing any number of spades x (if p feels it is right) and the only FEAR is possibly missing a 53 heart fit (ok maybe a 52 heart fit also) but that is such a teeny tiny target compared to all that is out there.

[Zelandakh]

 gszes, on 2016-October-13, 21:15, said:

x

This is by far the most flexible bid allowing for a wide range of contracts/sacrifices/penalties.

Why do you feel that double followed by pass is more flexible than 2♥ followed by double? It is less committal certainly but flexible?

[Phil]

Great problem actually.

I probably like double a little more, because even when we find our heart fit there's a good chance the opponents are profitably bidding 4♠, so it's incumbent to look for 5m.

If we were w/r then 2♥ has more going for it, since the save possibilities are fewer.

The side benefit is that I'm also not getting lit up red with a spotless suit by taking this approach.

[enjoyelife]

I am extremely confused why you emphasized on "stupid" and indicated it's the word I used? There's no "stupid" in my last post ! You liked this word or lied just for revenge on me? I am sorry to say it's never a way to convince anyone of your opinion and it made you a little like an angry child. Moreover, how long you haved stayed here doesn't promise how experienced you are at bridge. There are many players who have played this game for years but are still like beginners. I am sure you aren't one of them but you obviously didn't focus on the critical point and just tried to blame my criticism on 2♥ you in fact supported in your mind.
I didn't say double is 100% perfect so you needn't put such nonsense out. There are many situations in which your partner doesn't support your own suit or opponents have many cards against you and that you haven't considered. Didn't you find you said it like 2♥ would be the most descriptive? Like nothing wrong in your comments? How many national or international matches you have played or watched at least? I don't want to waste my time to debate on such simple auction, but I strongly suggest you before you tell others to be nice or humble to learn, look yourself in the mirror to make sure you can do it well. It's no use to pretend to be a objective commentor when you are not so good like that, especially when you try to attack others by lies. And the most important, all the hands have been shown. Consider them more carefully before giving any more arguement.

 Zelandakh, on 2016-October-12, 08:48, said:

Hello enjoylife and welcome to the BBO forums.

Perhaps you misunderstand the idea behind a 2♥ overcall here. A double shows 9 of your cards, which is pretty good, but nonetheless hides a key feature in the 4th and 5th heart. A heart overcall alone surely shows only 5 cards, which on the surface might seem selfish. However, once followed up by a double you are essentially able to get over approximately 11 cards from your hand including the key features of spade shortage and 5 hearts, which actually improves the level of cooperation between yourself and partner.

You are new here so can be forgiven for thinking that the level is low but in general the BBF posters are a fairly knowledgeable bunch so it would be wise not to assume stupidity in the first instance to a position taken by more than one or 2 respondents. More likely there is a point behind the position that you have not understood and you should use it as a learning opportunity.

Here the choice between double and 2♥ is a close one. It essentially boils down to whether you are willing to double on the second round if it comes back in 3♠. If you are then 2♥ is the more descriptive call; if not then we probably have to double now to avoid losing the opportunity forever. That there are differences of opinion on this is not surprising but to think that either group is making their decision based on selfishness or stupidity is not only insulting but rather completely missing the point. I recommend not calling any other BBF poster stupid (or selfish) again until you are able to spot the crux of the issue on every thread without any doubt about being wrong...

[Zelandakh]

 Zelandakh, on 2016-October-12, 08:48, said:

I recommend not calling any other BBF poster stupid (or selfish) (or a liar) again until you are able to spot the crux of the issue on every thread without any doubt about being wrong...

FMP.

[nige1]

Few posters seem handicapped by doubt that they're right

[MrAce]

 enjoyelife, on 2016-October-22, 12:53, said:

I am extremely confused why you emphasized on "stupid" and indicated it's the word I used? There's no "stupid" in my last post ! You liked this word or lied just for revenge on me? I am sorry to say it's never a way to convince anyone of your opinion and it made you a little like an angry child. Moreover, how long you haved stayed here doesn't promise how experienced you are at bridge. There are many players who have played this game for years but are still like beginners. I am sure you aren't one of them but you obviously didn't focus on the critical point and just tried to blame my criticism on 2♥ you in fact supported in your mind.
[size=2]I didn't say double is 100% perfect so you needn't put such nonsense out. There are many situations in which your partner doesn't support your own suit or opponents have many cards against you and that you haven't considered. Didn't you find you said it like 2♥ would be the most descriptive? Like nothing wrong in your comments? How many national or international matches you have played or watched at least? I don't want to waste my time to debate on such simple auction, but I strongly suggest you before you tell others to be nice or humble to learn, look yourself in the mirror to make sure you can do it well. It's no use to pretend to be a objective commentor when you are not so good like that, especially when you try to attack others by lies. And the most important, all the hands have been shown. Consider them more carefully before giving any more arguement.

Someone found Zelandakh offensive. God help me with this guy in the future!