[rhm]

 helene_t, on 2016-January-20, 02:38, said:

Against very weak players who don't understand, let alone make use of, the meaning of your calls, psyching serves no purpose. For example, if they bid the same way against a preempt as against a strong 2♣ opening, there is no point in opening 2♣ with a weak hand.

It depends on the circumstances:

For example yesterday playing with a weak partner in a weak field

I held as South (IMPS pairs):

---

I decided to bid 1♠ whereupon next hand bid 4♥ and 12 tricks were (almost) cold.
I would not have passed against any pair, but my action might differ depending on the skill level of the opponents. Overall few pairs bid as well when faced with intervention.

Rainer Herrmann.

[WellSpyder]

 Cyberyeti, on 2016-January-19, 18:35, said:

... unfortunately I got dealt bona fide bids on both boards.

Couldn't you have psyched a pass, then?

[PhilG007]

 wank, on 2016-January-19, 03:19, said:

i psyched against a bad pair. obviously this was legal and the director told them so. later he unofficially suggested i behave myself and that psyching against clueless people was a bit low. i have heard this view expressed before.

it's not a view i share. this was a national event, albeit not a very high standard one (it was a swiss running alongside a BAM, so all the good teams were in the BAM assuming they had qualified for the final). the opps were the perennial beginner types - played for a very long time without ever progressing. but anyway, i consider psyching to be an important part of the game. yes, it's very out of fashion compared to the early days of bridge (1930s and whatnot), but I don't think bidding fashion should be a factor in deciding how i play the game.

comments?

please don't send this to the laws forum. there is no doubt my actions were legal. it's an issue of taste.

The issue of 'psyching' at the bridge table has long been a bone of contention. The ACBL,particularly has taken a dim view of it.
I quote the article about it in the ACBL Bulletin in February 1978 authored by Donald Oakie :-

"[b][ It is high time that we call all of our members' and directors attention,especially at the club level, to the fact that,
while a psychic bid is legal,its discriminate use is not. People who employ psychic bids against less experienced players may be
guilty of unsportsmanlike psyching and thereby be in violation of League regulations. People who psych against their peers may be guilty
of frivolous psyching.or of having an unannounced partnership understanding. People who psych against more experienced players will probably
get bad boards,and they may lose the few good boards they get by being judged to have indulged in unsportsmanlike psyching or to have disrupted the game.


"What does this mean to you as a player? If you want to psych any call other than a forcing call,go ahead and do it - it's perfectly legal. If you psych
on an average of once a month.no player or director is likely to say a word about it.If you can't resist the temptation to do it oftener,you are going to
fall foul of the Laws and League regulations. The excitement of using a psychic bid often exerts an almost irresistible attraction for a newcomer to
duplicate bridge. An occasional jaded 'duplicateer' will fall back on psychic bids as a means of having "fun" during a session marked by bad results
in the early rounds or where few rating points are at stake. Expert players and the large majority of experienced club and tournament players seldom or
never make a psychic bid.
" A psychic bid carries a high price tag. When employed agaianst one's peers,the chances of success are 50-50. When they fail,they can prove to be very
costly.When they succeed,in a very short time the cost in partnership confidence can far exceed any momentary advantage gained.
By its nature,a psychic bid,whether successful or not,is remembered by the opponents as well as the user's partner. A player who becomes addicted to
psychs soon becomes a 'marked' man. Psychers live in a storm's eye of gloating or infuriated opponents,harried TD's and sceptical tournament committess.
Win or lose,they,as like as not,tend to disrupt the events they enter and thus find the protection extended to them by the Laws offset by their inability to prove that,by their action,they have not violated the Proprieties"

[hrothgar]

 PhilG007, on 2016-January-20, 08:54, said:

The issue of 'psyching' at the bridge table has long been a bone of contention. The ACBL,particularly has taken a dim view of it.
I quote the article about it in the ACBL Bulletin in February 1978 authored by Donald Oakie :-

"[b][ It is high time that we call all of our members' and directors attention,especially at the club level, to the fact that,
while a psychic bid is legal,its discriminate use is not. People who employ psychic bids against less experienced players may be
guilty of unsportsmanlike psyching and thereby be in violation of League regulations. People who psych against their peers may be guilty
of frivolous psyching.or of having an unannounced partnership understanding. People who psych against more experienced players will probably
get bad boards,and they may lose the few good boards they get by being judged to have indulged in unsportsmanlike psyching or to have disrupted the game.

"What does this mean to you as a player? If you want to psych any call other than a forcing call,go ahead and do it - it's perfectly legal. If you psych
on an average of once a month.no player or director is likely to say a word about it.If you can't resist the temptation to do it oftener,you are going to
fall foul of the Laws and League regulations. The excitement of using a psychic bid often exerts an almost irresistible attraction for a newcomer to
duplicate bridge. An occasional jaded 'duplicateer' will fall back on psychic bids as a means of having "fun" during a session marked by bad results
in the early rounds or where few rating points are at stake. Expert players and the large majority of experienced club and tournament players seldom or
never make a psychic bid.
" A psychic bid carries a high price tag. When employed agaianst one's peers,the chances of success are 50-50. When they fail,they can prove to be very
costly.When they succeed,in a very short time the cost in partnership confidence can far exceed any momentary advantage gained.
By its nature,a psychic bid,whether successful or not,is remembered by the opponents as well as the user's partner. A player who becomes addicted to
psychs soon becomes a 'marked' man. Psychers live in a storm's eye of gloating or infuriated opponents,harried TD's and sceptical tournament committess.
Win or lose,they,as like as not,tend to disrupt the events they enter and thus find the protection extended to them by the Laws offset by their inability to prove that,by their action,they have not violated the Proprieties"

Good thing none of this has any regulatory impact...

[zillahandp]

The issue is not the psyche itself but if it is fielded or semi fielded. If you psyche even from time to time, your p could well be compromised as he knows you psche from time to time. For this reason all psyche bids or even semi psches must be reported. The director should and will rule against the par psching wherever possible and so a smidgeon of fieldng will label your p a cheat and possbly you as a bot too sharp. Its your risk and the odds are not good esp agains a pair you expect to better anyway. Daft tactic for my money. Not suprised you got ticked off on the basis it was a bit pointless.

[Vampyr]

I found one aspect of the above confusing -- what is the ACBL's position about psyching a forcing bid?

[brettnj]

I agree with the director. Knowing that the opps were a weak pair, and did not have the ability "to field a psych", is not a demonstration of superiority, but weakness - doing it against a world-class pair, with the attendant risks, is fair game. However, psyching against weak pairs is the type of behavior that will drive newbies from the game. Since your level is demonstrably above those in question, you should rely upon your skill level to get an average plus board.

[awm]

1. Partner and I play a complex strong club system with many alerts. When we face a weaker pair are we expected to switch to SAYC? We would surely expect avg+ even if we did, and all the alerts might upset opponents...
2. Opponents have an auction to 4M and I think under leading an ace is probably best defense. If they are a weak pair, must I refrain from this lead? After all they might muff the play regardless, and beginners are taught never to underlead aces...
3. Opponents are a weak pair and have already misdefended my contract to give me an average plus. There's a squeeze available for me to get a field-wide top. Is it unethical to take advantage? After all I've already got avg+...
4. Opponents are announcing the meaning of their own calls at the table to help each other remember. Despite the clear UI, they are such bad players that they will probably give me good results. Is it unethical for me to call the director?

How are psychs different from the above?

[Caitlynne]

Psychic bids are part of the game. Sometimes they are intelligent based on the hand, and sometimes they are not. Against weak players - assuming you are a superior player - it is rarely helpful since you can expect to do well without relying on cunning tactics. But is it wrong?

NO! It is part of the game. The ACBL frowns on it because bad players are where the numbers are and does not want to chase them away.

On the other hand, why should your philosophical strategy about how to deal with a hand in an auction change because of your opponents's skill (a subjective perception/evaluation on your part, by the way)?

I might be able to beat pair X with an above average by playing down the middle, but feel I am likely to get a top vs. an average by psyching. If I am looking to win, might not I choose to take advantage of the opportunity before me? Don't we do this on every hand?

I say go ahead and psyche as long as you psyche within the rules (which includes not having an understanding about it with partner, which would constitute an unfair advantage).

By the way, I very very very rarely make random psychic bids, but I make tactical psyches whenever I have the right hand for it. This is fairly rare - maybe about once in every 300 deals or so - rare enough for partner not to recognize it and for no understanding to be established. What's more, I have a strict rule: partner is supposed to make his or her normal bid as if my bid were real. When I psyche, I am the one who has to be responsible for the psyche, not partner.

Finally, it is not only weak players who object to psychics. But anyone who is truly an expert with an expert understanding of the game will not have a problem with it.

[LinusO]

I am against psyching against new players, because it might scare away new players if more experienced players psych against them. The new players might feel cheated.

[billw55]

 brettnj, on 2016-January-20, 10:21, said:

psyching against weak pairs is the type of behavior that will drive newbies from the game. Since your level is demonstrably above those in question, you should rely upon your skill level to get an average plus board.

 LinusO, on 2016-January-20, 12:36, said:

I am against psyching against new players, because it might scare away new players if more experienced players psych against them.

At club games I would agree. Maybe even at entry level tournaments where novices may be tentatively wetting their feet, so to speak.

However this case was specified as occurring at a national tournament. Far from dabbing their toes, they dove in the deep end of their own will. So special treatment is no longer warranted IMO.

[blackshoe]

Oakie went on an anti-psyching crusade. I don't know why he did it, and I don't much care. I think he did a disservice to the game.

[hrothgar]

 Caitlynne, on 2016-January-20, 11:57, said:

Against weak players - assuming you are a superior player - it is rarely helpful since you can expect to do well without relying on cunning tactics.

In my experience, a successful well time psyche can throw players game off for an entire match.
Especially when they get really wound up and then get no satisfaction from the TD...

[blackshoe]

 Vampyr, on 2016-January-20, 09:56, said:

I found one aspect of the above confusing -- what is the ACBL's position about psyching a forcing bid?

They don't, so far as I know, have one. It is, however, illegal to psych certain artificial or conventional bids, and illegal to have in place a psychic control if someone psychs.

Quote

ACBL GCC, under "Dissallowed":
2. Psyching of artificial or conventional opening bids and/or conventional responses thereto. Psyching conventional suit responses, which are less than 2NT, to natural openings.
3. Psychic controls (Includes ANY partnership agreement which, if used in conjunction with a psychic call, makes allowance for that psych.)

[rubedog]

This is a why it's important to ask the range if opp doesn't say it. If opp asked the range and your P responds 15-17 he would know 2♣ is stayman. if he asked the range, you would have had to be truthful and say it was a weak NT. or at the beginning of the hand, you should notify that you play weak NT openings. If i called the director and said your P didn't state the NT range and it wasn't standard 15-18 or so, yes, the director is totally in the right to deny your bid and penalize you somehow.

[rubedog]

Since you said you bid the psych against inexperience players. This is directly from the ACBL website: Unsportsmanlike Psychic Bidding — Action apparently designed to give the opponents an abnormal opportunity to get a good score, psychs against pairs or teams in contention, psychs against inexperienced players and psychs used merely to create action at the table are examples of unsportsmanlike psychic bidding. Many directors would have called you out for stating a strong NT bid and passing on 2♣.

[mikestar13]

Read S.J. Simon's Why You lose at Bridge. the chapter "Fixed by Palookas" is on point for this discussion--psyching against weak players is self-defeating. But how can you know someone you are playing against in a national event is a bad player until you've seen them in action? The OP doesn't describe a situation where the opponents definitively showed themselves to be unskilled on board one so he threw a psyche at them on board two: he estimated their actual skill higher than it was and tried to psyche them, reasonably enough. Were I director, I might consider advising them to be grateful for the complement (undeserved, though I wouldn't say that).

[ggwhiz]

I'm fine with this contingent on the level of the event but it brings back a fond memory.

I volunteered to play with the novice girlfriend of our club Director when he told me that a number of players were taking advantage of her in the bidding.

We had 2 rules. Pass - pass to her and she MUST bid and if I took any bid during the auction she could not pass the opponents out in anything unless they were doubled. We put fear and loathing into the hearts of some really bad actors and one of them called her on a psyche on the 2nd last board. The Director (not her boyfriend) ruled the result stood and told her she was only allowed to psyche once more in this session (and she did).

A few days later playing with her boyfriend against me, I made an overcall and when he bid something she doubled him!

[hrothgar]

 mikestar13, on 2016-January-20, 17:20, said:

Read S.J. Simon's Why You lose at Bridge. the chapter "Fixed by Palookas" is on point for this discussion--psyching against weak players is self-defeating.

I disagree. Simon's analysis focuses on the cost benefit analysis for a single hand. In actuality, the effects of a successful psyche can persist for years.

Case in point: I haven't made a psyche during a F2F ACBL tournament in at least six months. (And I've played in a half dozen or so events)
I guarantee you that when I sit down to play in Watertown next month, there will be a couple individuals who will get all wound up when they sit against me and this will throw off their game.

[blackshoe]

 rubedog, on 2016-January-20, 16:52, said:

This is a why it's important to ask the range if opp doesn't say it. If opp asked the range and your P responds 15-17 he would know 2♣ is stayman. if he asked the range, you would have had to be truthful and say it was a weak NT. or at the beginning of the hand, you should notify that you play weak NT openings. If i called the director and said your P didn't state the NT range and it wasn't standard 15-18 or so, yes, the director is totally in the right to deny your bid and penalize you somehow.

One incident should not result in any penalty. As for "deny your bid", what does that mean? The director cannot tell a player "you can't make that bid, do something else".