[MrAce]

 mgoetze, on 2015-August-30, 14:46, said:

Obviously I am happy to take the word of world class players that leading a club from Kxx QTxx Kxx Jxx against 1NT-p-p-p is absurd but would someone care to explain why? I personally would choose a heart but I rather prefer leading from Jxx to leading from Kxx.

Jxx is one of the worst combinations that you want to lead from. It is not passive lead, it is suicidal lead.

[gnasher]

On the 3rd video hand, if East had held Qxx K9 KJ10xx Q10x, might he have opened the bidding? With nothing else to go on, that seems to me sufficient reason to play West for ♠Q. Hence I don't think there's anything suspicious about the play of that hand.

[MrAce]

Is BW still working for you all? I can't get in BW, and when I can it just works for only 2-3 mins at most.

[arrows]

 MrAce, on 2015-August-30, 18:03, said:

Is BW still working for you all? I can't get in BW, and when I can it just works for only 2-3 mins at most.

perhaps it's under DoS attack. Just speculating.

[lamford]

 gnasher, on 2015-August-30, 18:03, said:

On the 3rd video hand, if East had held Qxx K9 KJ10xx Q10x, might he have opened the bidding? With nothing else to go on, that seems to me sufficient reason to play West for ♠Q. Hence I don't think there's anything suspicious about the play of that hand.

The line chosen by Lindqvist in the other room looks better; winning the club, ruffing two diamonds and two clubs, and then playing ace and another heart; but he had some bidding from EW. When East won, he was endplayed, and if he is not, you can still find the queen of spades. But then, if you know where the queen of spades is ...

And nobody seems to have commented on the jump to 6S on board 4, which looks far too optimistic to me.

[Zelandakh]

 PhantomSac, on 2015-August-30, 16:47, said:

But hand 1 is the most amazing when...

What I find most amazing about it is that seemingly everyone thought that F-S were cheating and yet the Dutch player was happy for him to look at his hand. He is either very stupid, very naive or was unaware of the whispers.

The video against the Norwegian pair was particulaly interesting as F-S were defending much of the time. A possible leading code from these would be that placing the board down on the left show hearts, on partner's side spades, on my side means clubs and to the right (actually more the middle) for diamonds. Perhaps someone with some time could check that against the other publically available material.

The other thing is that I am not convinced pulling on the jumper means "bad break in trumps". Rather, I suspect it shows a singleton and Fisher may even have been improvising in using it as Dummy. But perhaps Boye has more to come on the code itself...

[hrothgar]

 arrows, on 2015-August-30, 18:10, said:

perhaps it's under DoS attack. Just speculating.

I don't think its used to the load.

Every post is being forwarded to hundreds of recipients and the posts are coming fast and furious.

I am getting an enormous number of duplicate emails. I think there is some kind of concurrency issue.

[MrAce]

 lamford, on 2015-August-30, 17:18, said:

It was down for maintenance I think, but back now. The video of the segment v the Dutch with the slam hand missing ♦Jxxxx is on here.

Repeated for convenience as they say:
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=KHDSvRJkv6I

I think it is worth going to Board 4 at 36.00, where Fisher is thinking with ♠xxx ♥KJ ♦x ♣AKJxxxx , after (4D)-4S-(5D), and Schwartz then fans and unfans his cards and gives a quick crimp to the corner of the cards, which will always give a slight noise, but will be perceived by most as fidgeting. It would be unfair to suggest that this shows a void and slam interest, and Fisher was fully worth his jump to 6S ... The Dutch did well to save in 7D.

Does it have something to do with placement of water bottle and sweater?

[PhantomSac]

 Zelandakh, on 2015-August-30, 19:00, said:

What I find most amazing about it is that seemingly everyone thought that F-S were cheating and yet the Dutch player was happy for him to look at his hand. He is either very stupid, very naive or was unaware of the whispers.

I made a comment to someone about this. I think it shows how powerful the desire to not be rude is. Yes I know some will say it was rude of Lotan to ask to see and against the rules blah blah blah but this is very common practice in these kind of events with screens, it is so ***** slow and it gives the dummy a sweat. I believe the racecars did this too and that was the hand they were caught on. Anyways, if Meck asked to see my hand as dummy in a slam of course I would insta say yes, it is "standard practice." I'm sure Louk knew but he still showed him, as rightly or wrongly based on the etiquette of these things saying no would be a clear sign that he thought they cheated. Lotan is very charismatic and you can see him laughing with him and whispering to him before the lead, THEN he asks to see louks hand. It is very powerful that he said yes.

Sorry to be an armchair sociologist lol but I found that really interesting. A lot of being a bridge pro is like being a politician, people liking you who might then recommend you for a job etc etc. I can see why he said yes even though it seems completely insane, much like a lot of psychological phenomenons.

[MrAce]

Ok BW made announcement that says "Due to high traffic we are having issues, we are working on it and we will be back in few hours"

[PhantomSac]

 gnasher, on 2015-August-30, 18:03, said:

On the 3rd video hand, if East had held Qxx K9 KJ10xx Q10x, might he have opened the bidding? With nothing else to go on, that seems to me sufficient reason to play West for ♠Q. Hence I don't think there's anything suspicious about the play of that hand.

The hands themselves are not being used as evidence of cheating AFAIK. His play was normal. Just like the hand where he led a heart from Kxx was pretty normal (Boye made the same lead himself).

I dont find it normal to peek at my opponents hand while going to the bathroom and then to come back and do all this weird left arm stuff while you know your left hand opponent has the SQ. But thats just me. There are lots of youtube videos of them, how many other times do you see those mannerisms (left elbow on the table, then left hand scratching your ear, then left indext finger on your mouth while your left elbow remains visible to the other side of the screen)?

[PhantomSac]

 Zelandakh, on 2015-August-30, 19:00, said:

The other thing is that I am not convinced pulling on the jumper means "bad break in trumps". Rather, I suspect it shows a singleton and Fisher may even have been improvising in using it as Dummy. But perhaps Boye has more to come on the code itself...

I mean Boye leaked to Norweigan press (in the same article where he said he is hiding out in a secret house after talking to police) that pulling the sweater means...

I assume he has more than one hand to prove that.

[inquiry]

 PhantomSac, on 2015-August-30, 15:09, said:

Are you serious? You didn't watch the videos very well.

Louk showed Lotan his hand on board 1 before dummy came down. So that is how Lotan knew that he had a stiff trump. That is on video and not disputable, whether he signalled Ron or not is unclear but Lotan knew Louks trump holding.

Assuming sweater pull says bad trump split, no need to show if it is east or West. A "normal" 4-1 with East having 4 is discovered after winning and trump in dummy (West shows out). So no need to even "mention" bad trump split. This assumes 5 ♥ showed heart King and trump Queen, which it should.

[BunnyGo]

As Bridgewinners is down, I can only see the videos and commentary here. Is the idea that these hands are indicative of signaling they do in other similar situations? If so, then that's really damning, but as a massive fidgeter myself, I'm sure that I've "signaled" things by scratching or twitching or who knows what. Partners of mine have been known to ask me what song I could possibly be dancing to as dummy.

I'm just saying that I find these hands to be interesting, but not damning in and of themselves (and yes, there is a lot more evidence, but this was supposed to be the queen). As there seem to be specific allegations as to how they signal (as in, it is physical, not secreted micro electronics--probably with the tray, and probably with the sweater or other twitching), then I hope someone will be providing analysis a la "the doctors".

I understand that it can be hard or even impossible to detect methods, and that it isn't always necessary, but as the alleged methods are caught on tape, it seems like somebody should be able to find them.

[PhantomSac]

Still got a few cards to turn over before we see the royal

But from his site he did say:

"We will keep adding:

Video clips
Testimonies/reactions from third parties
Suspect boards
Detailed descriptions of the cheating methods"

He also told the Norweigan press some of the ways they cheat (via google translate):

" I sit on the videos that I shall present later. Some examples about that one player moves on the chair and that means they must play hearts. Other examples show that a player leaving in the sweater, which probably concerns that trump sitting askew. Yes, this can show the all-time scandal in Bridgeport history, says Brogeland."

The whole point is that it should not be necessary to know how, and that the Larry Cohen idea of just using hands without the knowledge of how will stop this earlier and is equally effective. Boye has made it pretty clear he has figured out the how in this case, the problem is moving forward how to stop this much much faster. It looks like the ACBL is going to enact measures to do so (but obv it had nothing to do with what Boye did!). It also looks like the IBF has convened a special committee (but obv that had nothing to do with how Boye did this). If they ban F-S then the ACBL doesnt even need to do it's own investigation they can just follow the IBF ruling.

[captyogi]

 mgoetze, on 2015-August-30, 14:46, said:

Obviously I am happy to take the word of world class players that leading a club from Kxx QTxx Kxx Jxx against 1NT-p-p-p is absurd but would someone care to explain why? I personally would choose a heart but I rather prefer leading from Jxx to leading from Kxx.

but would someone care to explain why?

Inky Pinky Ponky, ....... ..... ...... ..... ......,
....... ......... .........,
Cx

[BunnyGo]

I love the latest bridgewinners message:

"Due to recent events (*), we are getting a lot of traffic. This has caused our site to become unstable.

We are actively working on this, and hope to be back online in the next few hours.

(*)Steve bid blackwood with a void again and Bobby hired some hackers"

[MrAce]

 BunnyGo, on 2015-August-30, 21:40, said:

I love the latest bridgewinners message:

"Due to recent events (*), we are getting a lot of traffic. This has caused our site to become unstable.

We are actively working on this, and hope to be back online in the next few hours.

(*)Steve bid blackwood with a void again and Bobby hired some hackers"

I loved the previous one. At least it was asking a suit combination about how to take 4 tricks. I am still trying to solve it...

[captyogi]

 hrothgar, on 2015-August-30, 12:07, said:

As I recall, I first started beating the horse back during the Tenerife scandal.

FWIW, I am starting to think that the record keeping might be more important than the physical separation.
I really admire the work that Boye, Kit, and the like are doing. One thing that is striking is how dependent this is on Vugraph records.

I can't help but believe that better record keeping would make life a whole lot better.

Who knows... Video technology is getting a lot better. Maybe something can be done if we have a video camera for every table, along with some software than can translate the video feed into a Portable Bridge Notation file or a vugraph feed.

quote
= = = = =

One thing that is striking is how dependent this is on Vugraph records.

I can't help but believe that better record keeping would make life a whole lot better.

= = = = =

You are bang on Traget.

It is very very important, specially when you have to go through archives.

I had sent once one appended e mail to BBO Support


quote

Pune

11-Aapr-2014


Dear Sir,


I wanted to study the Vu Graph of hands played in recently concluded Justice J.M.Lal Memorial Championship on 6th Apr, 2014.

However I find the records are haphazard ( player’s name are incorrect, sometimes player from other team is playing in opponent team,

Also Bidding sequence and deals appeared to have been altered, as few deal I watched, which are not there.


I request you to instruct to Vu Graph operators to upload deals accurately and as they were bid and played with all columns completed and not leaving blank.

= = = = =
unquote

I got following reply

quote
= = = = = =
Hi Yogesh,

Please contact Buddy Shah, he organizes most of the broadcasts for India. I am
not sure if this particular event was organized by Buddy, but even if it wasn't
he probably knows who the organizer was and will be able to help with vugraph
operator instruction.
= = = = =
unquote

I got busy with other important things in my life and did not pursue the matter further.

However, BBO must Instruct Vu Graf Operators, Each and Every Detail of Vu Graf Broadcast is Uploaded Accurately.

[Antrax]

Too many replies to keep track of, I apologize if someone already posted this.
Not sure if it's been announced in English anywhere, but I saw the IBF announce they're creating a "special committee" to look over this case. Not sure what its jurisdiction would be, though - probably they could ban them from play in Israel which isn't exactly earth-shattering for them, I would imagine.