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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#20961 User is offline   Gilithin 

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Posted 2023-June-07, 00:14

View PostWinstonm, on 2023-June-06, 21:09, said:

My state has done it again: tax funded religious charter school approved.

To hell with the establishment clause?

Time for every non-Christian school in OK to apply for state funding. If they turn those down, the case for not favouring one faith over another becomes so weak that probably even the discredited SCOTUS cannot justify supporting this.
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#20962 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2023-June-07, 05:57

View PostGilithin, on 2023-June-07, 00:14, said:

Time for every non-Christian school in OK to apply for state funding. If they turn those down, the case for not favouring one faith over another becomes so weak that probably even the discredited SCOTUS cannot justify supporting this.

The goal is to crush public education and grift off these private schools. You know, teach good Christian values and Noah’s ark as history.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20963 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2023-June-07, 10:58

View Postkenberg, on 2023-June-02, 07:03, said:

Well, it seems we will not default.

I watched the PBS Newshour last night (Thursday evening) and this was just a little before the bill passed the Senate. It was mentioned, in a worried tone, that senators do not like to work on Friday and of course they do not like to work on Saturday or Sunday. Yep, that was very worrisome. But this can cut both ways. I see that they passed the bill late Thursday. Whew! God forbid that they actually have to work on a Friday or the weekend, but they averted that crisis. Good for them

I've been wondering whether the negotiators deliberately dragged things out to the last minute so that the hard-liners in the GOP would realize that there wouldn't be time to hammer out a bunch of amendments.

#20964 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2023-June-08, 06:47

View Postbarmar, on 2023-June-07, 10:58, said:

I've been wondering whether the negotiators deliberately dragged things out to the last minute so that the hard-liners in the GOP would realize that there wouldn't be time to hammer out a bunch of amendments.



Quoted from Greg Sargent:

Quote

[I]n promising to restore "the soul of the nation" in the face of this threat, Biden has continually distinguished between MAGA Republicans and more conventional ones. This approach has been criticized by those of us who see much of the GOP as extreme and dangerous — after all, many elected Republicans helped whitewash Trump's insurrection — and think Biden's characterization of non-MAGA Republicans plays down that broader threat.

But Biden's reading served him well in the debt limit standoff. Contrary to much criticism, Bidenworld believes that refusing to negotiate at the outset was key: It forced Republicans to offer their own budget, which created an opening to attack the savage spending cuts in it.

Notably, Biden and other Democrats relentlessly characterized those cuts as destructive and dangerous in the MAGA vein. Bidenworld did believe that some MAGA Republicans were willing to default and force global economic cataclysm to harm the president's reelection, a senior Biden adviser tells me, but also that many non-MAGA Republicans ultimately could be induced not to go that far.





A critical time for our nation and I hope Biden is right, that there are more realistic Republicans than nut jobs. And all we can really do is trust he is right. On the bright side, he's been there and knows more than I do about the way Washington works, but trusting a politician is no something that is in our DNA, so it is hard to do.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20965 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2023-June-08, 18:42

Finally. Indicted.
Non legit hoc
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#20966 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2023-June-09, 04:51

View Postpilowsky, on 2023-June-08, 18:42, said:

Finally. Indicted.


Grab 'em by the Grand Jury. When you're a special prosecutor, they let you do that.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20967 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2023-June-09, 05:33

View PostWinstonm, on 2023-June-09, 04:51, said:

Grab 'em by the Grand Jury. When you're a special prosecutor, they let you do that.


Because you're a star?
Non legit hoc
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#20968 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2023-June-09, 17:20

View Postpilowsky, on 2023-June-09, 05:33, said:

Because you're a star?

Exactly.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20969 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2023-June-10, 01:01

Watching the news the other day Pence 2024 has me sold already - apropos of me not having a clue about the USA
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#20970 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2023-June-15, 09:02

View Postpilowsky, on 2023-June-08, 18:42, said:

Finally. Indicted.

I was annoyed that they didn't remand him. Seems to me that anyone with their own jet is a flight risk.

The judge sais that he couldn't discuss the case with his co-defendant or witnesses. Wouldn't it have been great if he'd imposed a gag order, so he couldn't talk about it in his rallies?

#20971 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted 2023-June-15, 10:15

During the GOP primaries in the 2022 Senate (and Governor) races, the Democratic Party was reported to have spent money on the "crazy" GOP candidates so that their Dem rivals eventually have a better chance of winning the actual seat against a "crazy" opponent rather than a traditional GOP opponent. It was considered a very risky strategy, but clearly that strategy worked quite well.

Maybe there are covert efforts underway in the Dem establishment in the belief that defeating Trump will be much easier than defeating anyone less crazy.

This post has been edited by shyams: 2023-June-15, 11:10

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#20972 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2023-June-15, 15:56

View Postbarmar, on 2023-June-15, 09:02, said:

I was annoyed that they didn't remand him. Seems to me that anyone with their own jet is a flight risk.

The judge sais that he couldn't discuss the case with his co-defendant or witnesses. Wouldn't it have been great if he'd imposed a gag order, so he couldn't talk about it in his rallies?


If Trump were to hop on Trump force 1 and seek refuge in the Cayman islands - would anybody care?
He can never go to prison so the best that can be hoped for is that he is forced to withdraw from the races and peters out rant and raving at the rising sea levels in southern Florida.

548 has him winning the GOP primaries with a crushing margin and neck and neck with Biden.
With the economy booming and COVID quiescent there's a very high likelihood he'll be back.

I'm expecting boatloads of US refugees in Australia in 2024.
Mexico might decide to finish the wall after all.


Non legit hoc
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#20973 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2023-June-15, 17:17

View Postpilowsky, on 2023-June-15, 15:56, said:

If Trump were to hop on Trump force 1 and seek refuge in the Cayman islands - would anybody care?
He can never go to prison so the best that can be hoped for is that he is forced to withdraw from the races and peters out rant and raving at the rising sea levels in southern Florida.

My suggestion is that Trump reach a plea deal with DOJ to surrender his passport, renounce US citizenship, liquidate his US assets, pay off all of his lawsuits and other debts, and permanently move to another country without extradition with no possibility of returning. In return, no Federal jail time, and since he is in a country without extradition, state charges are unenforceable.

Why do you say Trump can't go to prison? Because the judge won't send him to prison (actually a likely possibility if alleged judge cannon is not removed), or because Trump will flee the country.
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#20974 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2023-June-15, 17:22

View Postbarmar, on 2023-June-15, 09:02, said:

The judge sais that he couldn't discuss the case with his co-defendant or witnesses.

Actually that order is pretty ridiculous and unenforceable, since co-defendant Nauta is Trump's personal valet and they are together most working hours and are easily together in a room with no witnesses.

There was a funny comment by somebody, can't remember the name, that claimed Trump usually only said about a dozen words to Nauta in any given day, and "Thank you" wasn't among those words.
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#20975 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2023-June-15, 18:29

Jack Smith can still bring more charges where other crimes were committed (Bedminster golf club is in New Jersey), and some of those charges disqualify Trump from holding office. I would not be surprised to see an eventual plea bargain of no prison time but disqualified from holding office.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20976 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2023-June-15, 18:42

View Postjohnu, on 2023-June-15, 17:17, said:

My suggestion is that Trump reach a plea deal with DOJ to surrender his passport, renounce US citizenship, liquidate his US assets, pay off all of his lawsuits and other debts, and permanently move to another country without extradition with no possibility of returning. In return, no Federal jail time, and since he is in a country without extradition, state charges are unenforceable.

Why do you say Trump can't go to prison? Because the judge won't send him to prison (actually a likely possibility if alleged judge cannon is not removed), or because Trump will flee the country.

Your "suggestion" is exactly the point I'm making.
Trump is as likely to fly off to Brazil as you are to turn into a tomato.
Half of the voting population still think he should be President.
They also think UFO's are real, the earth is flat and on BBO they all believe they're experts.

If Agnew and Nixon didn't go to prison and Kissinger got the peace prize, Trump will live out his days in the presidential ballroom.

Only poor people that aren't white and rich go to prison unless they rip off other rich white people - e.g. Bernie Madoff.

If a former President of the USA can be convicted of espionage the whole experiment is over.
Murder, yes, financial fraud, definitely, even defamation.
But how does the system cope if a person elected to the pinnacle by half the population and responsible for all the nation's secrets is convicted of espionage.

Even though - on the face of it, and by his own admission - he did it, there's a major political/structural problem in convicting him; far less imprisoning him with his secret service entourage.
It would take a special act of congress - at a minimum.



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#20977 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2023-June-23, 18:27

Reuters is reporting that 10 members of the House of Representatives held a secret meeting with Mike Pence trying to pressure him into not certifying the electoral college votes in order to keep Trump in power.

I hope was criminal and they get nailed for it.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20978 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2023-June-23, 19:09

Straight out of "Mean Girls".
According to Axios the house fecal caucus (both of them) is meeting to discuss kicking MGT out because she said something nasty to the gentlewoman (that line always cracks me up) from Colorado.
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#20979 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2023-June-23, 20:13

View Postpilowsky, on 2023-June-23, 19:09, said:

Straight out of "Mean Girls".
According to Axios the house fecal caucus (both of them) is meeting to discuss kicking MGT out because she said something nasty to the gentlewoman (that line always cracks me up) from Colorado.

As a physician can you tell me if these people vibrate fast enough will they explode or lust transform into their true alien forms?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20980 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2023-June-23, 20:24

View PostWinstonm, on 2023-June-23, 20:13, said:

As a physician can you tell me if these people vibrate fast enough will they explode or lust transform into their true alien forms?


Give me a child until he* is seven, and then don't let him learn anything more and I will show you the modern conservative.

*this applies to other genders as well.


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