[BudH]

I have been trying to create an external movement in ACBLscore for a 12-round, 24 board, 11-table Hesitation Mitchell.

I have been aggravated in trying to create a movement with more rounds than tables without ACBLscore giving me an error message or telling me it is not allowed. My last attempt I started with a 12-table bye stand/relay (relay/share) with bye stand (relay) after Table 5 and created a one winner movement and had phantom pairs 23 and 24 always playing no boards at Table 12 - but of course I was given an error message and was not able to delete off that Table 12 after I finished.

Part of my movement table is at the end of this message.

Does anyone have experience in setting up external movements such as the Hesitation Mitchell in ACBLscore?

Bud H

(partial movement table)

SECTION A Round
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Table NS EW Bd NS EW Bd NS EW Bd NS EW Bd NS EW Bd NS EW Bd NS EW Bd
1 1 12 1 1 11 3 1 22 5 1 21 7 1 20 9 1 19 11 1 18 13
2 2 13 3 2 12 5 2 11 7 2 22 9 2 21 11 2 20 13 2 19 15
3 3 14 5 3 13 7 3 12 9 3 11 11 3 22 13 3 21 15 3 20 17
4 4 15 7 4 14 9 4 13 11 4 12 13 4 11 15 4 22 17 4 21 19
5 5 16 9 5 15 11 5 14 13 5 13 15 5 12 17 5 11 19 5 22 21
6 6 17 13 6 16 15 6 15 17 6 14 19 6 13 21 6 12 23 6 11 1
7 7 18 15 7 17 17 7 16 19 7 15 21 7 14 23 7 13 1 7 12 3
8 8 19 17 8 18 19 8 17 21 8 16 23 8 15 1 8 14 3 8 13 5
9 9 20 19 9 19 21 9 18 23 9 17 1 9 16 3 9 15 5 9 14 7
10 10 21 21 10 20 23 10 19 1 10 18 3 10 17 5 10 16 7 10 15 9
11 11 22 23 22 21 1 21 20 3 20 19 5 19 18 7 18 17 9 17 16 11
12 23 24 0 23 24 0 23 24 0 23 24 0 23 24 0 23 24 0 23 24 0

[Vampyr]

Can you make the pivot table into two tables?

[blackshoe]

The base for this movement Is a ten table Mitchell. That is, there are 10 stationary pairs. Table 11 has two moving pairs. You don't need pair 23 or 24. Basically, pairs 1 through 11 start as NS at tables 1 through 11. Pairs 12 through 22 start as EW at tables 1 through 11 (so their pair number is their table number plus 11). Put a bye stand between tables 5 and 6, so the board sets (numbered 1 through 12) start at their respective tables through table 5, set 6 is on the bye stand, and sets 7 through 12 are on tables 6 through 11, respectively. Moving pairs follow the next higher numbered pair, so pair 11 follows pair 12, and goes to EW table 1 in round 2. Pair 22 follows pair 11, so goes from EW at table 11 in round 1 to NS at that same table (the pivot table).

I don't have ACBLScore handy right now, but if you start with this, you should be okay.

Arrow switching: The Scandinavians recommend arrow switching the stationary pairs in rounds 8,7,9, and 12. The English disagree, recommending, I think, only 1 or 2 switches.

[BudH]

Thanks - the mechanics of the movement I know - and I am for now using a single arrow switch before the last round only, but might switch that to the penultimate round.

It is inputting it into ACBLscore that has been a headache. I am wondering as I type this how I will be able to add an 11th table (and the other two pairs) after starting with a 10-table Mitchell.

Of course, I had a similar problem before with my 12 table Mitchell in that I couldn't find a way to delete Table 12 and pairs 23 and 24!

[blackshoe]

Murg. I downloaded the latest ACBLScore and tried creating this movement. So far I haven't figured it out. Go here and grab Jeff Smith's Pairs Scorer. The movement is built in - and the program is a lot easier to use. I'll see if I can figure out how to get things into ACBLSCore, but it may take me a while.

Here's a movement table:

11 Tables: Hesitation Mitchell
Table 1              Table 2              Table 3              Table 4              Table 5              Table 6              Table 7              Table 8              Table 9              Table 10             Table 11
Rd  NS  EW  Set      Rd  NS  EW  Set      Rd  NS  EW  Set      Rd  NS  EW  Set      Rd  NS  EW  Set      Rd  NS  EW  Set      Rd  NS  EW  Set      Rd  NS  EW  Set      Rd  NS  EW  Set      Rd  NS  EW  Set      Rd  NS  EW  Set
1   1   12  1~2      1   2   13  3~4      1   3   14  5~6      1   4   15  7~8      1   5   16  9~10     1   6   17  13~14    1   7   18  15~16    1   8   19  17~18    1   9   20  19~20    1   10  21  21~22    1   11  22  23~24
2   1   11  3~4      2   2   12  5~6      2   3   13  7~8      2   4   14  9~10     2   5   15  11~12    2   6   16  15~16    2   7   17  17~18    2   8   18  19~20    2   9   19  21~22    2   10  20  23~24    2   22  21  1~2
3   1   22  5~6      3   2   11  7~8      3   3   12  9~10     3   4   13  11~12    3   5   14  13~14    3   6   15  17~18    3   7   16  19~20    3   8   17  21~22    3   9   18  23~24    3   10  19  1~2      3   21  20  3~4
4   1   21  7~8      4   2   22  9~10     4   3   11  11~12    4   4   12  13~14    4   5   13  15~16    4   6   14  19~20    4   7   15  21~22    4   8   16  23~24    4   9   17  1~2      4   10  18  3~4      4   20  19  5~6
5   1   20  9~10     5   2   21  11~12    5   3   22  13~14    5   4   11  15~16    5   5   12  17~18    5   6   13  21~22    5   7   14  23~24    5   8   15  1~2      5   9   16  3~4      5   10  17  5~6      5   19  18  7~8
6   1   19  11~12    6   2   20  13~14    6   3   21  15~16    6   4   22  17~18    6   5   11  19~20    6   6   12  23~24    6   7   13  1~2      6   8   14  3~4      6   9   15  5~6      6   10  16  7~8      6   18  17  9~10
7   1   18  13~14    7   2   19  15~16    7   3   20  17~18    7   4   21  19~20    7   5   22  21~22    7   6   11  1~2      7   7   12  3~4      7   8   13  5~6      7   9   14  7~8      7   10  15  9~10     7   17  16  11~12
8   1   17  15~16    8   2   18  17~18    8   3   19  19~20    8   4   20  21~22    8   5   21  23~24    8   6   22  3~4      8   7   11  5~6      8   8   12  7~8      8   9   13  9~10     8   10  14  11~12    8   16  15  13~14
9   1   16  17~18    9   2   17  19~20    9   3   18  21~22    9   4   19  23~24    9   5   20  1~2      9   6   21  5~6      9   7   22  7~8      9   8   11  9~10     9   9   12  11~12    9   10  13  13~14    9   15  14  15~16
10  1   15  19~20    10  2   16  21~22    10  3   17  23~24    10  4   18  1~2      10  5   19  3~4      10  6   20  7~8      10  7   21  9~10     10  8   22  11~12    10  9   11  13~14    10  10  12  15~16    10  14  13  17~18
11  14  1   21~22    11  15  2   23~24    11  16  3   1~2      11  17  4   3~4      11  5   18  5~6      11  6   19  9~10     11  7   20  11~12    11  21  8   13~14    11  22  9   15~16    11  11  10  17~18    11  13  12  19~20
12  13  1   23~24    12  14  2   1~2      12  15  3   3~4      12  16  4   5~6      12  17  5   7~8      12  18  6   11~12    12  19  7   13~14    12  20  8   15~16    12  21  9   17~18    12  22  10  19~20    12  12  11  21~22
Sitter stay/switch   Sitter stay/switch   Sitter stay/switch   Sitter stay/switch   Sitter stay/switch   Sitter stay/switch   Sitter stay/switch   Sitter stay/switch   Sitter stay/switch   Sitter stay/switch   NS to 1
Mover to 2           Mover to 3           Mover to 4           Mover to 5           Mover to 6           Mover to 7           Mover to 8           Mover to 9           Mover to 10          Mover to 11EW        EW to 11NS

[Vampyr]

 BudH, on 2015-June-14, 23:23, said:

Thanks - the mechanics of the movement I know - and I am for now using a single arrow switch before the last round only, but might switch that to the penultimate round.

The guideline here is to switch one eighth of the boards. So for 24 boards we arrow-switch the last round for 3-board rounds, the two last for 2-board rounds.

[blackshoe]

Okay, I figured it out. Sheesh. I'd forgotten what a monumental pain in the ass EDMOV is.

Create a game file. When you get to the movement select a standard 11 table Mitchell. Then go into EDMOV and make it look like the table I posted above. I used the "edit sequentially" option in EDMOV. Took me about an hour and a half. Be aware that the table above shows rounds down the column and tables across, while ACBLScore reverses this. Make sure to save the movement file after you finish editing it (it'll ask if you want to, just say yes). If you want, I can send you the movement file I just did. Just tell me where.

Sheesh. This Windows installation (Windows 7 running in Parallels on a Mac) thinks movement files are quicktime movies.

Note that the schedule I posted upthread includes arrow switches for the last two rounds.

[BudH]

If you can send it to budh9534@gmail.com, it would be greatly appreciated.

I started with a standard 11 table 22 board Mitchell and then made it a one winner movement (add 11 to the EW pair numbers).

But how is the 12th round added? And how to have 24 boards in play (that part is less difficult than adding the 12th round which was my big obstacle.

Bud H

[blackshoe]

 BudH, on 2015-June-15, 18:24, said:

But how is the 12th round added? And how to have 24 boards in play (that part is less difficult than adding the 12th round which was my big obstacle.

That's what the bye stand is for. When you edit the movement you tell it that in, for example, round one, tables 1 through 5 start with boards 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 (first board of the two board round). Tables 6 through 11 start with boards 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, 23. Note that board 11 isn't in the schedule. That's 'cause it's on the bye stand (along with board 12, of course). Later rounds are similar.

In editing the movement, the program will ask you first for the table number, and second for the round number. I started with round 1, fixed round 1 (basically adjusted the board numbers at tables 6 through 11), and went through each round. After round 11, I went on to round 12. No problem. If you mess something up, just complete the process and go back to edit the same table number and round again. Do not "escape" unless you want to start over from the beginning. If you make a mistake and don't catch it, the editor will catch it when you try to save it. Then you can go back and fix whatever.

I'm not sure how/when EDMOV picks up on the fact that you're going for 12 rounds. Maybe when you tell it there are 24 boards, as in my first paragraph.

File sent.

[crazy4hoop]

I think the way to start this in ACBLscore is to start by adding your section, entering the letter and color and all that stuff. Then when asked Mitchell, Howell, something I don't remember, or External, select External. Then scroll all the way down to Create your own Mitchell movement. Then you can enter 11 tables and 12 rounds and 24 boards in play. Then you can convert to one winner movement and go about editing sequentially the boards and pairs as blackshoe suggested (I think). Good luck!

[BudH]

Thanks for the file. Later this week I will check it out.

It sounds like you did what I attempted - but never was that 12th round ever an option for me. I'll give it another try and see if I can duplicate your work.

Bud

[blackshoe]

 Vampyr, on 2015-June-15, 00:13, said:

The guideline here is to switch one eighth of the boards. So for 24 boards we arrow-switch the last round for 3-board rounds, the two last for 2-board rounds.

I noticed that the schedule I got from Jeff Smith's program (posted above) arrow switches the last two rounds at all tables except 5, 6, and 7. At those tables only the last round is switched. That's okay with me.

[gordontd]

 blackshoe, on 2015-June-16, 07:35, said:

I noticed that the schedule I got from Jeff Smith's program (posted above) arrow switches the last two rounds at all tables except 5, 6, and 7. At those tables only the last round is switched. That's okay with me.

It's one of the movements that came from the Manning book, where he says "the arrow switches in some movements may appear haphazard, but they have been carefully calculated with the aid of a computer program". He was much concerned with the question of balance in movements, but I suspect in practice many clubs just arrow switch the last two rounds at all tables except the switch table.

[blackshoe]

 gordontd, on 2015-June-16, 07:44, said:

It's one of the movements that came from the Manning book, where he says "the arrow switches in some movements may appear haphazard, but they have been carefully calculated with the aid of a computer program". He was much concerned with the question of balance in movements, but I suspect in practice many clubs just arrow switch the last two rounds at all tables except the switch table.

I don't have that book. I don't think it's available here.

I'm with you - most club owners/directors here don't understand the math, and aren't interested anyway. They just do whatever's convenient.

[Vampyr]

 gordontd, on 2015-June-16, 07:44, said:

It's one of the movements that came from the Manning book, where he says "the arrow switches in some movements may appear haphazard, but they have been carefully calculated with the aid of a computer program". He was much concerned with the question of balance in movements, but I suspect in practice many clubs just arrow switch the last two rounds at all tables except the switch table.

Gordon, the same is true at EBU tournaments.

Naturally more and better balanced comparisons is better then fewer or less balanced ones. But is it realistic to require players to perform any but the simplest procedures?

[BudH]

 blackshoe, on 2015-June-15, 01:34, said:

Okay, I figured it out. Sheesh. I'd forgotten what a monumental pain in the ass EDMOV is.

Create a game file. When you get to the movement select a standard 11 table Mitchell. Then go into EDMOV and make it look like the table I posted above. I used the "edit sequentially" option in EDMOV. Took me about an hour and a half. Be aware that the table above shows rounds down the column and tables across, while ACBLScore reverses this. Make sure to save the movement file after you finish editing it (it'll ask if you want to, just say yes). If you want, I can send you the movement file I just did. Just tell me where.

Sheesh. This Windows installation (Windows 7 running in Parallels on a Mac) thinks movement files are quicktime movies.

Note that the schedule I posted upthread includes arrow switches for the last two rounds.

OK, there must be something very simple that I am missing in trying to duplicate how you created your external movement file for this 11-table Hesitation Mitchell. (And thank you for emailing your file to me.)

1. In ACBLscore, I set up a very standard 11 table, 11 round, 22 board, 2 boards per round Mitchell movement
[1a. At this point, I would expect to use the 13 Convert>One Winner, but for now pretend to not do this now, for ease of later discussion]
2. F11 --> EDMOV --> 2 Display or Change Movement --> 10 Edit Sequentially --> 3 Both Boards and Pairs

At this point, starting with Round 1, I enter Table, Round, New NS Pair, New EW Pair, and New Board Number. Because I am assumed to not have converted to a One Winner Movement, all the defaults will work through the Table 5 of Round 1.

Because of the Bye Stand desired between Table 5 and Table 6, when I reach Table 6, all the defaults are still the same except the Board Number, in which I need to type "13" to replace "11". This continues for Round 1 entries with the default pair numbers but Table 10 has had "19" replaced by "21".

But when entering information for the final Table 11 for Round 1, when I try to replace "21" with "23" (which ACBLscore will not be expecting since it's greater than 22), I cannot enter the "23" in that box - it just beeps at me due to the "error".

So up to this point, is there something I have done incorrectly? (I am expecting it is something simple - usually is for stuff like this.)

Thanks for your time and efforts. As someone who is typically considered a "computer expert", ACBLscore is kicking my butt!

Bud

[blackshoe]

My memory isn't as good as it once was. Maybe I made it a one winner movement before editing it. Try that.

[kevperk]

 BudH, on 2015-June-16, 19:58, said:

OK, there must be something very simple that I am missing in trying to duplicate how you created your external movement file for this 11-table Hesitation Mitchell. (And thank you for emailing your file to me.)

1. In ACBLscore, I set up a very standard 11 table, 11 round, 22 board, 2 boards per round Mitchell movement
[1a. At this point, I would expect to use the 13 Convert>One Winner, but for now pretend to not do this now, for ease of later discussion]
2. F11 --> EDMOV --> 2 Display or Change Movement --> 10 Edit Sequentially --> 3 Both Boards and Pairs

At this point, starting with Round 1, I enter Table, Round, New NS Pair, New EW Pair, and New Board Number. Because I am assumed to not have converted to a One Winner Movement, all the defaults will work through the Table 5 of Round 1.

Because of the Bye Stand desired between Table 5 and Table 6, when I reach Table 6, all the defaults are still the same except the Board Number, in which I need to type "13" to replace "11". This continues for Round 1 entries with the default pair numbers but Table 10 has had "19" replaced by "21".

But when entering information for the final Table 11 for Round 1, when I try to replace "21" with "23" (which ACBLscore will not be expecting since it's greater than 22), I cannot enter the "23" in that box - it just beeps at me due to the "error".

So up to this point, is there something I have done incorrectly? (I am expecting it is something simple - usually is for stuff like this.)

Thanks for your time and efforts. As someone who is typically considered a "computer expert", ACBLscore is kicking my butt!

Bud

As was already mentioned, you DO NOT select a standand 11 table Mitchell, you select External, scroll to the bottom, and select "Create your own one winner movement"

[BudH]

 kevperk, on 2015-June-17, 22:12, said:

As was already mentioned, you DO NOT select a standand 11 table Mitchell, you select External, scroll to the bottom, and select "Create your own one winner movement"

Thanks - I figured that out after seeing the previous post about going to the end of the external choices. My bad.

[BudH]

Thanks to all for your patience and assistance. If I had seen the "creating your own movement" choices in ACBLscore initially, it would have saved me a lot of time - and postings on this topic!

One thing this exercise in creating a game movement in ACBLscore has done is to (after significant internet research) show me more details on arrow switching and the debate on how many rounds should be arrow switched. After checking the mathematics involved, I have to agree that 1/8 of the boards, or slightly more than that, appears to be correct.

This interested me because the excellent Bridge Director's Companion by Larry Harris, in the most recent revision 6 on page IV-10 he describes setting up a "scrambled bye/relay" of six tables, in which the stationary pairs play East-West cards half the time (in Rounds 3, 4, and 5 of the 6 rounds). I had created an external ACBLscore movement for that.

But after my recent reading of arrow switch theory, I changed my 6-table arrow switched one winner bye-stand/relay (relay/share) external ACBLscore game movement to have an arrow switch during the last round only (1/6 of the boards) instead of what that book describes (1/2 of the boards).