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An excuse like this Split from Responding to Preempt thread

#21 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2015-June-05, 07:21

View Postdiana_eva, on 2015-June-05, 06:48, said:

No reply sought. I don't like to edit or delete stuff, especially when I'm late to the party so I wanted to dump *somewhere* some replies that were cluttering a fine bridge thread. I personally find it annoying to have to dive through various pissing contests in order to read replies to the OP. Maybe I shd just delete all the off topic replies as soon as they appear and warn the offenders, but that's too police style for my taste.

I guess the best way would be indeed to create a garbage can and let flame wars die there.


I see your problem. Speaking overall, I think that both the wc and the other fora are very pleasant places. People get worked up sometimes but they calm down.

From time to time there will be cases, on the fora and in everyday life, where we are ready to say "Oh for God's sake will you please just shut up". The infrequency with which that happens here speaks well of bridge players as well as the moderator.

Maybe moving the discussion to the wc is right. We can all of us see that that is what has been done and respond or ignore as we see fit. In this one, I had trouble grasping the conversation. There was the diamond preempt and the spade preempt and then the excited comments. It was like coming into the middle of some shoot-'em-up action movie. But I think I got it.

Anyway, keep up the good work!!
Ken
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#22 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2015-June-05, 07:24

View Postmikeh, on 2015-June-04, 09:02, said:

Seriously...anyone who is so lacking in basic bridge knowledge that they claim that the hand you posted led to a good score in 6 doubled down two......well, I've been told not to make statements as to levels of intelligence of some posters so I will stop there, secure in the knowledge that 99% of the readers know what I mean, and as for the person who doesn't, just block him if his ridiculous posts annoy you. Personally, I don't block him (yet) because his posts tickle my admittedly sick sense of humour...this guy seems genuinely to think that he knows something about the game....it's hilarious on one level, sad on another, and irritating on yet a third. I expect the combination of the latter two will eventually lead me to block him :P

Agree. Still, someone needs to do the job of counterpointing his bad advice, especially in the novice forum. The community seems to be doing a good job so far, but if *everyone* blocked him, it wouldn't work.

View Postmikeh, on 2015-June-04, 09:02, said:

One thing I have learned from BBF life is that there are people who simply don't have any such element.

fixed
Life is long and beautiful, if bad things happen, good things will follow.
-gwnn
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#23 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2015-June-05, 08:51

Diana, you did a good thing moving this thread here.

Timo and PhilG, please take a moment to study this happy cat. Thanks.

Posted Image
OK
bed
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#24 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2015-June-05, 08:55

Then when you're done, please take a moment to review this Mission Impossible agent.

Posted Image
OK
bed
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#25 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-June-05, 09:22

Be careful about cat videos. His attorneys are watching!
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#26 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2015-June-05, 09:24

View PostPhilG007, on 2015-June-05, 00:26, said:


FYI these forums are democratic...everyone has the right to air their opinion...you can either agree or disagree.. disagreement is good...the world would be a sad place if only one opinion counted(!)


You are right, anyone can post in these forums.

Two good players named MikeH and Timo are sitting at the bar at a NABC after an event. Maybe they don't have the resumes of, say, Michael Rosenberg and Steve Robinson, but these are solid expert players who just qualified for Day 3 of the LMs. They have good playing records and have proven themselves as good players in real life and on the forums. They are discussing a particular bidding problem on Board 14, or maybe the opening lead on Board 3.

Now, some random who played in the event, or maybe the Gold Rush Pairs who has had a few too many Budweisers strolls over and inserts himself into the conversation without really being invited. Maybe he likes to spout his opinion, and back up his ideas with platitudes and 'rules' that you might learn at the club or a Barbara Seagram class. In a failed attempt to establish credibility and because he's trying to be clever he has a hand diagram scrawled out on a napkin of a holdup play that you might find in an intermediate-level Bill Root book. It takes them about 5 milliseconds to solve the problem because they are experienced players, and they have seen this theme dozens of times, because they are experienced. The conversation would peter out and they'd take their drinks somewhere else.

However, lets say Random Stranger politely asks to enter the conversation and adds something meaningful to the discussion, like an interesting deceptive play he made on another board, or a fascinating ending. Now the RS would be welcome, and has made some new friends. They would continue to laugh and joke and enjoy their Buds (well, not MikeH of course because he hates Bud).

Sure, the forums are democratic, and anyone can post, but that does not mean that everyone's opinion counts the same as everyone else's! It isn't like voting. Once you get into the door, its like the proverbial bar. If you want to gain credibility, you need to say something INTELLIGENT that good players will want to LISTEN to. Except, players don't have the right to walk away here, they have to go to the effort to actively ignore you. However, there are established rules of protocol and you won't read them in the Terms of Service. When I started posting in 2004 (?) a few players knew me, but not everyone. I remember a one-suit squeeze that I posted early on that a few thought was pretty cool and I hope that somewhere along the line I gained some respect, even though I sometimes make idiotic bids or opening leads. Depending on other priorities in my life I have been in and out of the forums, and I have seen many pretenders try to step in and assert themselves as hot sh*t only to be either laughed at or ostracized or both.

View PostPhilG007, on 2015-June-04, 08:08, said:


I warn my students that,when they embark on this strange game,they will not always find the path suffused with sweetness and light.



Here's yet another reason why internet bridge is so dangerous. Maybe you are a good enough player to teach (not that teaching means anything) or maybe you have a charismatic style that people like, or maybe you don't charge for lessons or playing pro. Worse yet, you are a charlatan that lures the unsuspecting since you can coherently explain the Rule of 15 and this gets you people to pay you for speedballs or take lessons on Bergen raises.

Please do me (us) a favor and DONT respond to this post. Read it, read it again, and read it a 3rd time. When you understand the message, come back and try to be a contributing member of the community. Try not to take on the big dogs during the first weeks, and be respectful toward good players. When you post, try to back up your opinion with more than platitudes or pithy sayings.

I hope you can be an active member and have something meaningful to say and have people listen to you. Otherwise, you'll be ignored.

Just like at the bar.
Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
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#27 User is offline   masse24 

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Posted 2015-June-06, 05:57

View PostPhilG007, on 2015-June-04, 00:27, said:

As I recall it,that hand came from a goulash tournament. I was -2 which was a very good result as opponents had 5 stiff.
Some players with my hand didn't even bid(!) :rolleyes: That's the answer,what's the question(?!)


Timo, I think you misunderstood Phil's point. What he meant to say was "5 is stiff if HE were defending"! ;)
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#28 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2015-June-06, 07:09

are these types of posts by this guy almost the classic illustration of the troll? why are we feeding it? He demonstrably has zero interest in actually understanding anything: despite the language employed in these posts, about the LOTT or the mini-notrump, etc.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#29 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-June-06, 13:14

View Postmikeh, on 2015-June-06, 07:09, said:

are these types of posts by this guy almost the classic illustration of the troll? why are we feeding it? He demonstrably has zero interest in actually understanding anything: despite the language employed in these posts, about the LOTT or the mini-notrump, etc.


This is like a "haunted account" ! Some sort of "Buy 1 get 3" or "All in one" kind of deal. Seems like 32519 + Lurpoa + Gerard came together and opened a single BBF account!
I am kinda scared! If my guesstimation is true, ya'll should be scared!! Now I understand what Lurpoa meant when she was saying "we forgive you...." and etc. Posted Image
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#30 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2015-June-06, 18:37

View Postmikeh, on 2015-June-06, 07:09, said:

are these types of posts by this guy almost the classic illustration of the troll? why are we feeding it? He demonstrably has zero interest in actually understanding anything: despite the language employed in these posts, about the LOTT or the mini-notrump, etc.

View PostMrAce, on 2015-June-06, 13:14, said:

This is like a "haunted account" ! Some sort of "Buy 1 get 3" or "All in one" kind of deal. Seems like 32519 + Lurpoa + Gerard came together and opened a single BBF account! I am kinda scared! If my guesstimation is true, ya'll should be scared!! Now I understand what Lurpoa meant when she was saying "we forgive you...." and etc.
We should be ashamed of our hyenoid treatment of 32519, Lurpoa, and (especially) Gerard Cohen. Obviously, we're not equally gifted but who is trolling is sometimes a moot point. Anyway, Diana_Eva created this thread to side-line pissing-competitions. The sooner that Mr Ace and PhilG007 start their bridge-match, the better.
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#31 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2015-June-06, 23:51

View Postmikeh, on 2015-June-06, 07:09, said:

are these types of posts by this guy almost the classic illustration of the troll? why are we feeding it? He demonstrably has zero interest in actually understanding anything: despite the language employed in these posts, about the LOTT or the mini-notrump, etc.



I looked up your profile. It makes VERY interesting reading.....(not) You"only play with friends.If you don't know me,don't ask me"
That's hardly the remarks of a sociable person(!) I wonder what he gets up to in his leisure hours(?) I wonder if he has even HAS
any "friends"(?!) :rolleyes: I've also noticed he's decided to make his talent at the game "Private" If you ARE an expert,then why
not declare it openly???.... why all the smoke and mirrors? Why be the shy guy(?!) At least in my profile,I'm open,honest and forthright... with me ,you get what you see....unlike a couple here I could mention(!) If my postings here are indeed,"the classic illustration of the troll",then his must surely be the classic illustration of the DROLL(!) <_<


"Any fool can criticise,condemn and complain. And most fools do"
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"It is not enough to be a good player, you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster

Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)


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by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
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#32 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2015-June-07, 00:00

View PostPhilG007, on 2015-June-05, 06:53, said:

And the point of this video is.....?! Choose your words carefully,my attorneys are watching(!)

As I have learned in my years of practice, the reason that some people have multiple attorneys is because some of their attorneys have refused to represent them. And if an attorney refuses to represent you, there is a good reason.
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#33 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2015-June-07, 00:07

View PostPhilG007, on 2015-June-06, 23:51, said:

[criticizing, condemning and complaining post about MikeH]
"Any fool can criticise,condemn and complain. And most fools do"
- Ben Franklin

Ben Franklin has a good point.

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
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#34 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2015-June-07, 02:12

View PostPhilG007, on 2015-June-06, 23:51, said:

I looked up your profile. It makes VERY interesting reading.....(not) You"only play with friends.If you don't know me,don't ask me"
That's hardly the remarks of a sociable person(!) I wonder what he gets up to in his leisure hours(?) I wonder if he has even HAS
any "friends"(?!) :rolleyes: I've also noticed he's decided to make his talent at the game "Private" If you ARE an expert,then why
not declare it openly???.... why all the smoke and mirrors? Why be the shy guy(?!) At least in my profile,I'm open,honest and forthright... with me ,you get what you see....unlike a couple here I could mention(!) If my postings here are indeed,"the classic illustration of the troll",then his must surely be the classic illustration of the DROLL(!) Posted Image


"Any fool can criticise,condemn and complain. And most fools do"
- Ben Franklin


While you were looking at MikeH's profile, did you notice that he has a star on his name plate? That star means that he has represented his country in international competitions, it's a symbol acknowledging real life achievements in bridge.

As for the text saying "playing with friends, do not invite me" many star players have similar comments in profile, because they are constantly harassed with invitations to play from randoms.

#35 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2015-June-07, 02:21

View PostPhilG007, on 2015-June-07, 00:48, said:

That's as maybe but I guess I'm set in my ways :)


PhilG, you started out like a normal poster and now you're becoming more and more aggressive. You maybe were not a troll nor planned to be one, but now you sound a lot like one. There's little point in communicating with someone who is set in their ways. If you are set, why ask? Just to be able to reply "I don't think so" and ignore any arguments? Hardly any point in opening a discussion then.

I don't think you intentionally came here trying to cause havoc. You can fit right in if you bother to read arguments of others against your proposed methods or solutions. And then think of what they are saying, consider whether they might have a point or not. Open your mind a little. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with others, but bland statements not backed up by any logical argument will not work well here.

#36 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2015-June-07, 04:08

View PostPhilG007, on 2015-June-06, 23:51, said:

At least in my profile,I'm open,honest and forthright... with me ,you get what you see....

Hm. From your profile: Age: unknown, Birthday: unknown, Gender: not telling, Preferred Conventions/System Notes: blank. "This user has not configured their 'About me' page yet".

"You get what you see". Yup. Nothing.
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#37 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2015-June-07, 04:14

View PostMrAce, on 2015-June-06, 13:14, said:

This is like a "haunted account" ! Some sort of "Buy 1 get 3" or "All in one" kind of deal. Seems like 32519 + Lurpoa + Gerard came together and opened a single BBF account!
I am kinda scared! If my guesstimation is true, ya'll should be scared!! Now I understand what Lurpoa meant when she was saying "we forgive you...." and etc. Posted Image


At times, I wonder whether we only have one primary forum troll who periodically sheds his skin...

Lukewarm ---> 32519 ----> Phil007
Alderaan delenda est
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#38 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2015-June-07, 04:17

View PostZelandakh, on 2015-June-07, 03:21, said:

...
And I have to ask why you allowed this Diana.
...


I think it's a natural reaction to get tilted when the whole community seems to be mobbing against you. IMO PhilG is right now on that thin line where he can lean towards listening and becoming a normal member of the community, or blow up completely and turn into a troll. Let him vent, maybe now he will see it's not personal and it's all about communication. If mods also censor him while allowing others to attack him (I'm sure that's his perception of what's going on here), there will be little chances that he goes the non-troll way.

He chose to take it out on MikeH. Bad choice, since Mike actually has a shiny visible symbol in his profile to prove he is a good player in real life. I hope mikeh will not mind, the "attack" is so absurd it's almost amusing.

Side-note: I've heard the anti-social, these-people-have-no-friends argument before from people who did not know what that star means, and why stars would write something so unfriendly in their profile. Seemed like a good moment to demote that myth along the way.

This is probably not the best approach, and the other mods are welcome to come clear the thread.

#39 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2015-June-07, 06:29

View Postblackshoe, on 2015-June-07, 04:08, said:

Hm. From your profile: Age: unknown, Birthday: unknown, Gender: not telling, Preferred Conventions/System Notes: blank. "This user has not configured their 'About me' page yet".

"You get what you see". Yup. Nothing.


Excuse Me? My profile is NOT blank Maybe something wrong with your PC? As for the other 'unknowns'
My birthday 13th May My Age 58 About me ? Just Ask! (As long as its not too personal)
"It is not enough to be a good player, you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster

Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)


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by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
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#40 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2015-June-07, 06:33

View PostPhilG007, on 2015-June-07, 06:29, said:

Excuse Me? My profile is NOT blank Maybe something wrong with your PC? As for the other 'unknowns'
My birthday 13th May My Age 58 About me ? Just Ask! (As long as its not too personal)


He is talking about your BBO Forums profile. There is such a thing as a profile in the Forums too.

Please stop assuming something is wrong with everyone else, and instead think of what they might be saying. This is the last chance you are getting to try and read other people's replies before posting. I'm a huge believer in people, but you're not trying at all to understand that not all world is having a big problem while you are perfectly fine.



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