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Test your play in this slam

#1 User is offline   KurtGodel 

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Posted 2015-May-03, 08:34

After a questionable, auction you wind up in 6. The 9 is led, you try the queen from dummy and this fetches the king and your ace. How do you choose to play if when you play a heart to the king LHO:
i) Plays low
ii) Drops an honour (does it matter which one to you?)
iii) Drops the 9
Try posting your answers as spoilers, as it might be a good opportunity for some to learn by working the problem out. I appreciate that this auction might not have a single call you agree with, but it's important to include the auction so that you can think about whether you were asking for a particular lead, or whether the opponents might have bid.

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#2 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2015-May-03, 13:02

Spoiler


Rainer Herrmann
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#3 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2015-May-03, 13:58

View PostKurtGodel, on 2015-May-03, 08:34, said:

After a questionable, auction you wind up in 6. The 9 is led, you try the queen from dummy and this fetches the king and your ace. How do you choose to play if when you play a heart to the king LHO:
i) Plays low
ii) Drops an honour (does it matter which one to you?)
iii) Drops the 9
Try posting your answers as spoilers, as it might be a good opportunity for some to learn by working the problem out. I appreciate that this auction might not have a single call you agree with, but it's important to include the auction so that you can think about whether you were asking for a particular lead, or whether the opponents might have bid.
Spoiler

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#4 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2015-May-03, 14:23

View Postnige1, on 2015-May-03, 13:58, said:

Spoiler
[/size]

Spoiler


Rainer Herrmann
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#5 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2015-May-03, 16:35

View Postrhm, on 2015-May-03, 14:23, said:

Spoiler
Spoiler

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#6 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2015-May-04, 00:03

Is this supposed to be a theoretical debate, or what we would actually do at the table?
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#7 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2015-May-04, 02:17

View PostKurtGodel, on 2015-May-03, 08:34, said:

Try posting your answers as spoilers, as it might be a good opportunity for some to learn by working the problem out.

If someone doesn't want to see other people's answers, can't they just not read them? This is a discussion forum; I can't see why you would want to make it hard for people to participate in this discussion.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#8 User is offline   KurtGodel 

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Posted 2015-May-04, 03:15

View PostPhantomSac, on 2015-May-04, 00:03, said:

Is this supposed to be a theoretical debate, or what we would actually do at the table?

What we would actually do. I think part of the element is deciding when someone falsecards from J9 et cetera...
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#9 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2015-May-04, 03:29

View PostKurtGodel, on 2015-May-04, 03:15, said:

What we would actually do. I think part of the element is deciding when someone falsecards from J9 et cetera...

The main thing to do is assume that they haven't falsecarded and play accordingly.

If LHO plays an honour, play him for HH or H by finessing the 8. If LHO plays the 9, play him for H9 by playing the ace.


If you go down against some normal layout like LHO having Qxxx Q9 xxx 98xx or Qxxx QJ xxx 98xx when you could have made it by doing the obvious, are you really going to tell your teammates that you were playing for LHO to have falsecarded?


... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#10 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2015-May-04, 04:08

View PostKurtGodel, on 2015-May-04, 03:15, said:

What we would actually do. I think part of the element is deciding when someone falsecards from J9 et cetera...


Well, no one plays the Q from Q9 doubleton imo. J9 is a more plausbile falsecard but to date no one has done that vs me. So as you might guess vs the 9 I cater to H9 but vs an honor play I don't.
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#11 User is offline   KurtGodel 

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Posted 2015-May-04, 09:39

View PostPhantomSac, on 2015-May-04, 04:08, said:

Well, no one plays the Q from Q9 doubleton imo. J9 is a more plausbile falsecard but to date no one has done that vs me. So as you might guess vs the 9 I cater to H9 but vs an honor play I don't.

Yeah, to some extent that's why I posted this (and why I said in the OP - does it matter which honour?). I can't imagine anyone dropping the Q from Q9, that would be ridiculous. I thought it would be interesting how people thought about this situation. The rest of the hand was if no high card falls you should finesse the 8 and play for a trump coup with H9xx onside. On the actual hand it did not matter, as trumps were 3-3 and my drunken bidding (and the fact I thought P would have 3 hearts) paid off.
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#12 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2015-May-04, 11:14

View Postgnasher, on 2015-May-04, 03:29, said:

The main thing to do is assume that they haven't falsecarded and play accordingly.

If LHO plays an honour, play him for HH or H by finessing the 8. If LHO plays the 9, play him for H9 by playing the ace.


If you go down against some normal layout like LHO having Qxxx Q9 xxx 98xx or Qxxx QJ xxx 98xx when you could have made it by doing the obvious, are you really going to tell your teammates that you were playing for LHO to have falsecarded?

I agree and false carding in this situation is not that common.
Nevertheless if LHO plays the 9 it could be singleton and your chances are not that bad making the contract even then, but not if you play the ace on the next round.
If you finesse and it losses you are not down yet either.
So I am not sure that the ace (the simple line) is best.

Rainer Herrmann
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#13 User is offline   Aardv 

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Posted 2015-May-04, 18:17

Against anyone who knows and remembers Rosenberg's rule - always play the nine unless you must - 9 from 9x is an automatic false card here, so you should finesse on the second round. However, that's a small subset of the bridge-playing population.
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#14 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2015-May-04, 18:46

View Postgnasher, on 2015-May-04, 03:29, said:

The main thing to do is assume that they haven't falsecarded and play accordingly.
If LHO plays an honour, play him for HH or H by finessing the 8. If LHO plays the 9, play him for H9 by playing the ace.
A simple alternative is to play KAT.

Gnasher's line:
Gains when LHO has a singleton quack and you can accomplish an unlikely trump-coup.

Loses when
  • LHO has made a strange false-card from Q9 or J9 (As phantomsac points out) or
  • RHO has a singleton and LHO was dealt doubleton QJ or tripleton QJx (and has made a more routine false-card).
Admittedly, in the second losing case, LHO's 9 would be an unusual lead from a 5-card suit (reinforcing Gnasher's argument). But, if RHO holds 5 s, it's obvious that dummy is short of entries for a trump coup. Unless RHO is short in , would he masochistically sacrifice K at trick 1?

Is either line demonstrably superior? Or
should you just follow your instincts?
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