[LH2650]

An opening lead out of turn is made, and the prospective dummy starts to table his hand, exposing several cards before an objection is made. Does Law 54C cover this situation, so that the lead must be accepted? If so, can the prospective declarer still choose to become dummy?

[Vampyr]

I can't seem to cut and paste on my tablet, but the answer is no. I suggest you try 54A though.

EDIT: Oops I see you were referring to the "real" prospective dummy. I had assumed you weren't because I thought that 54C was clear, but now I see that (as usual) it is not, and says only that the lead must be accepted. There is no reference to 54B, and I think that we are supposed to guess that "accepting the lead" means accepting it and playing the hand as declarer. But who can know for sure?

[blackshoe]

Per 54C, if prospective declarer could have seen any of dummy's cards (that weren't exposed during the auction) he must accept the lead. That leads us to 54B, which says that dummy is spread, and the second card to the trick is played from declarer's hand. If declarer plays the second card to the trick from dummy, that play stands unless it was a revoke, in which case it must be corrected.

It gets real interesting if prospective declarer also spreads his hand, as that would invoke 54A, prospective declarer would become dummy, and now we have to figure out whether 54A or 54C takes precedence. I think I would rule that 54A takes precedence, prospective dummy becomes declarer, and any cards he exposed get picked up and put back in his hand (Law 48), but I'm certainly open to other interpretations.

[pran]

blackshoe, on 2015-January-04, 19:12, said:

Per 54C, if prospective declarer could have seen any of dummy's cards (that weren't exposed during the auction) he must accept the lead. That leads us to 54B, which says that dummy is spread, and the second card to the trick is played from declarer's hand. If declarer plays the second card to the trick from dummy, that play stands unless it was a revoke, in which case it must be corrected.

It gets real interesting if prospective declarer also spreads his hand, as that would invoke 54A, prospective declarer would become dummy, and now we have to figure out whether 54A or 54C takes precedence. I think I would rule that 54A takes precedence, prospective dummy becomes declarer, and any cards he exposed get picked up and put back in his hand (Law 48), but I'm certainly open to other interpretations.

For Law 54A to take precedence over Law 54C declarer must have faced at least one card before he "could have seen" any of dummy's cards faced as described in Law 54C.
(My Reference: EBL commentary 1992 to the laws of 1987. The commentary was officially recognized by WBFLC and Law 54 has remained unchanged since 1987)

[blackshoe]

I would imagine the facing would have been done pretty much simultaneously by both players, if that were the situation. The TD must investigate, but I suspect it's going to be difficult to get good information.

What do you do with "must" in 54A? ("Declarer must spread his entire hand").

[pran]

blackshoe, on 2015-January-05, 08:44, said:

I would imagine the facing would have been done pretty much simultaneously by both players, if that were the situation. The TD must investigate, but I suspect it's going to be difficult to get good information.

What do you do with "must" in 54A? ("Declarer must spread his entire hand").

If the facing is simultaneous then declarer could not have seen dummy's card before he faced his own so in that case L54A applies.

(However, if dummy had his first card faced before declarer faced his first card it is immaterial whether declarer did or did not see dummy's card: He could have seen it.)

I assume the effect of "must" in L54A is clear?

[blackshoe]

pran, on 2015-January-05, 10:41, said:

I assume the effect of "must" in L54A is clear?

I asked what you would do. If it was clear to me what you would do, I wouldn't have asked.

[pran]

blackshoe, on 2015-January-05, 15:20, said:

I asked what you would do. If it was clear to me what you would do, I wouldn't have asked.

If L54A applies then "must" of course applies". If L54C applies then neither L54A not "must" in L54A applies. I cannot see the problem?

[blackshoe]

Forget it.