[Michael000]

I've been playing (ACOL) Bridge at club level form the past 15 years and I would rate myself competent or better; I am well in the top 10 at my club. Over the years, from time to time (and certainly playing on-line here) I've come across players who list a dozen or more convention on their card. I have (rightly or wrongly) formed a view of these people. I wonder if they believe that makes them appear to be a better player i.e. I must be better than others because I play these obscure conventions. That said, I only play once a week and I know that several of my club members play 5 times a week and so it may be that they can use some of the more obscure conventions.

Is the an optimum number of useful conventions / what are the most useful conventions?

[mgoetze]

There are very very many useful conventions, so the optimum number to play is as many as you can remember safely.

Unfortunately, not all conventions are useful. If you can remember 3 conventions, you might still be better off not playing any conventions at all than playing Gerber, Josephine/GSF and Flannery.

The most useful conventions are Stayman and negative doubles.

[RMB1]

mgoetze, on 2014-December-28, 05:02, said:

The most useful conventions are Stayman and negative take-out doubles.

FYP

[Michael000]

OK here's what I play (ACOL)

Benjamin
Ogust
Stayman
Transfers
Gerber
Balckwood
Negative doubles

Here's what I don't play

Michaels
Astro
Lebensohl
Multi (anything)
Unusual (anything)
Puppet
Smolen
Cappelletti
Jacoby
Splinters
Cue Bids

I can recall when I started playing seriously and studying seriously thinking that I must learn all these (obscure) conventions, I have (over the years) formed the view that they are unnecessary but I am wiling to be convinced otherwise.

[Fluffy]

They are not neccesary, no convention is neccesary actually, normally a convention will give you more accuracy and put you in advantage as you won't have to guess, but you can always be just lucky and you will guess the right contract about 50% of the time.

If I were you I would work on splinters and cuebids, they are useful tool sfor slam bidding.

[paulg]

Michael000, on 2014-December-28, 05:41, said:

Here's what I don't play

Michaels
Astro
Lebensohl
Multi (anything)
Unusual (anything)
Puppet
Smolen
Cappelletti
Jacoby
Splinters
Cue Bids

If I played online with you, believing you to be an above-average club player, then I would expect you to play Michaels Cue Bids, Unusual No-trump, splinters, and cue bids as 'standard'. The rest of the list would definitely require agreement beforehand. I think this would be a common situation with a competent online partner. It's not a problem if you do not play these, but worth noting if there is space in your profile to let people know.

As you've noticed, a lot of BBO players are really just magpies picking up the shiniest new convention that they've seen. Few fully understand the totality of what they are playing, like continuations after a Michaels Cue Bid: unfortunately just the way of the world in real life as well as BBO when you are playing in irregular partnerships.

Jacoby 2NT is popular on BBO because it is a standard part of SAYC. How many SAYC players actually know this is variable, in my experience.

BTW it is Acol, not ACOL.

[Michael000]

paulg, on 2014-December-28, 06:08, said:

BTW it is Acol, not ACOL.

I know but ACOL looks nicer

[Michael000]

Fluffy, on 2014-December-28, 05:50, said:

They are not neccesary, you will guess the right contract about 50% of the time.

I know; in fact I've noticed that if we 'halve' every hand well get a middle every week, I did suggest that to my partner when we came bottom one week but he wasn't keen on the idea.

[eagles123]

well for a starters I don't know how you are supposed to have sensible slam auctions when you can't use splinters/cue bids.

But it all depends what level you're aiming for I guess

Eagles

[eagles123]

paulg, on 2014-December-28, 06:08, said:

If I played online with you, believing you to be an above-average club player, then I would expect you to play Michaels Cue Bids, Unusual No-trump, splinters, and cue bids as 'standard'. The rest of the list would definitely require agreement beforehand. I think this would be a common situation with a competent online partner. It's not a problem if you do not play these, but worth noting if there is space in your profile to let people know.

As you've noticed, a lot of BBO players are really just magpies picking up the shiniest new convention that they've seen. Few fully understand the totality of what they are playing, like continuations after a Michaels Cue Bid: unfortunately just the way of the world in real life as well as BBO when you are playing in irregular partnerships.

Jacoby 2NT is popular on BBO because it is a standard part of SAYC. How many SAYC players actually know this is variable, in my experience.

BTW it is Acol, not ACOL.

to be honest if I was playing online with a random adv I would assume Leb as well

[diana_eva]

eagles123, on 2014-December-28, 06:38, said:

to be honest if I was playing online with a random adv I would assume Leb as well

I don't think so...

[phoenix214]

You can treat the conventions you play as a toolbox. Obviously a hammer wont do the work every time, so you need to have a bit more of them. The more tools and options you have the better usually although having only the most simple ones available should be enough.
The ones you would need to know are usually:
Stayman, Transfers, Negative doubles, RKCB, some form of cuebids and maybe NMF. Everything else is just nice to have but not 100%

[P_Marlowe]

Michael000, on 2014-December-28, 05:41, said:

OK here's what I play (ACOL)

Benjamin
Ogust
Stayman
Transfers
Gerber
Balckwood
Negative doubles

Here's what I don't play

Michaels
Astro
Lebensohl
Multi (anything)
Unusual (anything)
Puppet
Smolen
Cappelletti
Jacoby
Splinters
Cue Bids

I can recall when I started playing seriously and studying seriously thinking that I must learn all these (obscure) conventions, I have (over the years) formed the view that they are unnecessary but I am wiling to be convinced otherwise.

Defense against their NT opening

Astro
Cappelletti

It is sensible to have one defense, natural will do, but
natural has its limits.
Conventions allow you to get in with 2-suited hands.

2-suited overcalls

Michaels
Unusual (anything)

Getting in with 2-suited hands direct to make their
live hard is important

Finding a major suit fit, after we opened NT

Puppet
Smolen

If they overcall our NT opening, how to sort out, if we have
enough for game or not

Lebensohl

Lebensohl is an important weapon, but not only when we have opened
NT, also after suit opening bids, reverse bids by opener

Slam bidding

Jacoby
Splinters
Cue Bids

This leaves Multi ... this is part of your opening bid
structure, if you play Benjamin, you dont need to play Multi,
it helps you to add add. hands as possible for opening the
bidding

In General:
The usefulness of the conventions above is ok, and if the level
of game you attent is better, they will be more useful.
But: You and your partner need to be able to apply those conventions.

[steve2005]

So many pick up partners don't understand cuebidding, never mind the couple that will pass u in the cuebid even though partnership has shown 10 ♠. How are you supposed to have serious slam tries?

But seriously New Minor Forcing/Fourth suit forcing is the most useful conventions after the standard conventions.

Lebensohl for the lucky few.

[Wackojack]

V important: Double, Stayman, RS transfers
Learn when double is for pen and when for take out
Learn the continuations of Stayman and transfers
Learn the applicability of Stayman
Learn what to do when opponets intervene after a conventional bid is made.
Learn when bids are forcing or non forcing. Particularly important when playing Acol.

Worthwhile: RKB, A defence to 1NT; Splinters; J2N, Michaels, cue bidding particularly support cue bids; fourth suit forcing.
Learn when to use these conventions and when not to.
Learn the continuations.
Learn what to do when the opponents use these conventions.

Retrograde: Benji 2♣and 2♦. Forget it.

Finally Gerber:
This convention might be needed on average once in a lifetime if you play once a week. It is 99.99% of the time mis-used. Forget it.

[the hog]

eagles123, on 2014-December-28, 06:37, said:

well for a starters I don't know how you are supposed to have sensible slam auctions when you can't use splinters/cue bids.

But it all depends what level you're aiming for I guess

Eagles

Neither Rixi Markus, nor the best natural bidders of all time, the Sharples twins, played splinters. That is not to say thst they are not useful.
Op you definitely need a way to compete over nts. Forget Cappelletti and look at Asptro or Aspro or Meckwell.

[Michael000]

Wackojack, on 2014-December-28, 19:09, said:

Retrograde: Benji 2♣and 2♦. Forget it.

Do others agree with this?
Why?
What's wrong with it?
What would you use in its place?

[Cthulhu D]

A weak 2D, worth 0.77 IMPs a board in top level play - and thus likely a lot more in your local club game.

It's not so much what's wrong with the Benji 2 openers - there is nothing in and of itself, wrong with them. Splitting your strong hands over two openings will increase your accuracy. The question is, what is the gain of using them vs wedging more strong hands into the rest of your system (2C and 1 level openers) and freeing up 2D to use as a preempt.

The consensus seems to be that the 2D opener is more effective. At a most basic frequency level your strong opener is 0.5% of hands, so your benji 2D is ~0.2 to 0.25% of hands, and the 2D opener is about 2.5% hands. So by jamming all the strong hands into 2C, you get something you rate to use 10 times as often. Pavelick's analysis has the 2D opener worth about 0.77 imps a board, which is pretty big. Given the lower frequency of the benji 2D, it would need to be worth something like ~3-5 imps a board to compensate, and it just isn't.

Whenever you add a convention, you should consider

A) What am I forgoing by playing this convention? (e.g. how frequent is the natural use of the bid).
B) How expensive memory wise is this gadget (this is harder to quantify, but 'obvious' artifical bids e.g. 1S-4C are less memory intensive than remembering 1C-1S-2H-3C! is a transfer to diamonds which looks very much like simple preference by responder..)
C) What do I gain by playing this convention? Does it solve a problem?

Consider splinters through this prism for a moment.

A) You forgo virtually nothing - when was the last time you wanted to bid 1S-4C naturally?
B) It's not very expensive memory wise because the bid leaps out of the auction at you!
C) It solves a problem by making a difficult hand type biddable in 1 go.

Splinters are thus probably a good idea, as they solve a problem, are easy to remember and cost nothing. If you apply this lens whenever you are considering some laundry list of conventions, you can rapidly sort out the wheat from the chaff!

Incidentally, people don't play a multi 2D because the multi itself is good - it's kinda naff. The advantage is that you can then work two additional preemptive bids into your system. It's not as clear that multi is good because it does cost that 0.77 imps a board weak 2D opener, but if you put that in 2C....

[Jinksy]

Cthulhu D, on 2014-December-29, 09:43, said:

A weak 2D, worth 0.77 IMPs a board in top level play - and thus likely a lot more in your local club game.

Presumably you mean 0.77IMPs per board on which a suitable hand comes up?

Quote

B) How expensive memory wise is this gadget (this is harder to quantify, but 'obvious' artifical bids e.g. 1S-4C are less memory intensive than remembering 1C-1S-2H-3C! is a transfer to diamonds which looks very much like simple preference by responder..)

Also, the more frequent the artificial bid, the lower the memory load, since seeing it more often will habituate you. Benji is terrible in this respect, too - many of the people who play it have really rudimentary continuations that waste its initial descriptive power (such as it is), because they'd forget anything more detailed every time it came up.

[Jinksy]

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