[wclucas42]

Lacking an IRL game, or partner, for that matter. I have been trying my hand at some of the free individual tournaments on BBO.i am seriously at a loss how to bid these things... It seems like I am always getting it wrong. I am either too conservative, speaking a different language or both... I bid what I thought was a fairly standard 2/1 with some oddities I guess like short club, but when bidding in tournaments I try to adhere to the Gib card. For instance I prefer RKCB 1430, but GIB plays 0314 so that is what I bid in tournaments. Same goes for best minor...

Today before I was dropped in the third round of a singles tournament (twice in the last three days) I was already scraping the bottom of the barrel. My first hand I opened the bidding 1 spade and the auction progressed 1 ♠ - 2 ♦ (p) - (p) - X (takeout) -all pass they made 2 and we had a near bottom... I have been playing mostly on bridge baron and this seemed a standard take out forcing bid since I was using the "easy" card. Gib seems to respond well too.

My next instance I also started the auction sitting east 1 ♣ - 1 ♦ - 1 ♠ - 2 ♣ - X (3 card spade support) - All Pass. They made 2 clubs and we got a bottom...

One from last Week went like this starting with Partner 1 ♦ - (P) - 3 ♦ (weak inverted minor) - (P) - 4NT - (P) - 5 ♣ (0 key cards) - (P) - 6 ♣ - X - All Pass and we went down 4.

I run into similar issues with major suit raises, especially with an intervening 1nt with delayed support, but I'm not sure I do better with simple raises, forget about hardy style Major suit raises I've tried Bergen raises and they seem to be confusing as well.

I'm not trying to complain, I'm the novice here, and those I'm miscommunicating with rank themselves much higher. I was just hoping to improve my game playing wetware and not hardware, but I feel like I am spinning wheels and should just stick to renting bots, or my app.

So not to be a quitter, I ask how do people usually bid when playing individual tournaments with Random partners? The tournament states everyone agrees to play 2/1 but that leaves a lot of latitude...

Thanks Bill.

[Cthulhu D]

 wclucas42, on 2014-November-18, 17:01, said:

I run into similar issues with major suit raises, especially with an intervening 1nt with delayed support, but I'm not sure I do better with simple raises, forget about hardy style Major suit raises I've tried Bergen raises and they seem to be confusing as well.

Don't try Bergen raises in an indie! Playing the GIB card is your (only) hope, but that's not perfect, the delayed 1NT raise for example is not clear to most people.

Quote

I'm not trying to complain, I'm the novice here, and those I'm miscommunicating with rank themselves much higher. I was just hoping to improve my game playing wetware and not hardware, but I feel like I am spinning wheels and should just stick to renting bots, or my app.

So not to be a quitter, I ask how do people usually bid when playing individual tournaments with Random partners? The tournament states everyone agrees to play 2/1 but that leaves a lot of latitude...

Thanks Bill.

More seriously, there is a joke somewhere that says 'unless you have been passed in blackwood, you cannot win an individual' - BBO random play is of a poor standard and many people will not be familiar with the system they have agreed to play. You just have to take your knocks.

The regularly suggested advice is to find people that you like, add them as friends and then offer to play with them whenever they show up. This will hopefully result in CHO being somewhat reliable.

[wclucas42]

 Cthulhu D, on 2014-November-18, 17:22, said:

The regularly suggested advice is to find people that you like, add them as friends and then offer to play with them whenever they show up. This will hopefully result in CHO being somewhat reliable.

Thanks for the response, I've only played indie tournaments to date, not much chance it seems to find people there. I guess I'll try to just sit at a few relaxed tables and see how that goes. I may also look into some of the on-line bridge clubs, but that sounds like a new thread.

I admit I second guess my partner's bid meaning as well, I guess I was hoping I was just missing a card for the free automated fun tournaments, but if it is just variance I can continue to take my lumps.

Thanks,
Bill

[GreenMan]

 wclucas42, on 2014-November-18, 17:01, said:

Today before I was dropped in the third round of a singles tournament (twice in the last three days) I was already scraping the bottom of the barrel. My first hand I opened the bidding 1 spade and the auction progressed 1 ♠ - 2 ♦ (p) - (p) - X (takeout) -all pass they made 2 and we had a near bottom... I have been playing mostly on bridge baron and this seemed a standard take out forcing bid since I was using the "easy" card. Gib seems to respond well too.

Yep, standard takeout.

Quote

My next instance I also started the auction sitting east 1 ♣ - 1 ♦ - 1 ♠ - 2 ♣ - X (3 card spade support) - All Pass. They made 2 clubs and we got a bottom...

In an indie, particularly a free one, I would not expect a random pard to recognize a support double. I'd avoid that one for now unless you know your partner.

Quote

One from last Week went like this starting with Partner 1 ♦ - (P) - 3 ♦ (weak inverted minor) - (P) - 4NT - (P) - 5 ♣ (0 key cards) - (P) - 6 ♣ - X - All Pass and we went down 4.

Same here: random free indie pards likely won't know inverted minors. P thought you had either 10+ or 13+ depending on what they were taught to begin with.

As you're discovering, it's difficult to impossible to know what a random P is thinking. Hanging out at relaxed tables and the beginner-intermediate club will give you some practice at accommodating unknown partners and introduce you to more people in a lower-stakes environment.

[ggwhiz]

I've played a lot of acbl indies for laughs and indeed you do have to take your lumps.

Most players I've seen have a profile that's workable and the first thing I do is chat something like, "Hi, your profile is good pard but no don't". Or sometimes the profile just says SAYC but I've never seen Gib mentioned. I don't even know what it is.

Most of my lumps come from play of the cards like the pard that led Queen from AQxxx against a suit. Of course every once in a while I'll open 1♣ - 1♥ to pard and they bid 1♠ on 8xxx instead of a negative double that they claim to play.

We play 3-board rounds and the strategy after watching your pard go down 2 in an easy cold contract on the first one is a whole different thread.

[barmar]

The most common default system in online bridge is SAYC. Assuming the GIB system (to ggwhiz -- GIB is the robots on BBO) is not a good idea.

And even that has to be taken conservatively. Many players claim to be playing SAYC, but they don't know everything in it. I think the most common misunderstanding is that they don't know about Jacoby 2NT.

You should basically just stick to Stayman, Jacoby transfers to majors, and ordinary Blackwood. If your partner has a profile that lists other conventions, agree to play their profile, perhaps with exceptions as ggwhiz suggests. Forget about splinters, NMF, 4SF, RKC, Texas transfers.

[Bbradley62]

 wclucas42, on 2014-November-18, 17:01, said:

So not to be a quitter, I ask how do people usually bid when playing individual tournaments with Random partners? The tournament states everyone agrees to play 2/1 but that leaves a lot of latitude...

In the Free Express tournaments, everyone is supposed to be playing the 2/1 GIB convention card, not just any random 2/1, so there little room for latitude, but lots of room for ignorance. These tournaments barely meet the definition of bridge.

You might check out some of the clubs, such as BBO Hornets, or BBO Fans, and some others... These tournaments are much less frequent, but they're also a little less random.

[barmar]

 Bbradley62, on 2014-November-19, 13:24, said:

In the Free Express tournaments, everyone is supposed to be playing the 2/1 GIB convention card, not just any random 2/1, so there little room for latitude, but lots of room for ignorance.

The theory behind that is that since your partner might get replaced with a robot, you should know the robot's system. The reality is that many players don't care.

Indies are a total crapshoot, try not to take them too seriously.

[barmar]

For more about the crap you encounter when you play with randoms, see the Jump to 4NT thread.

[Bbradley62]

 barmar, on 2014-November-19, 13:41, said:

The theory behind that is that since your partner might get replaced with a robot, you should know the robot's system. The reality is that many players don't care.

Indies are a total crapshoot, try not to take them too seriously.

I completely understand and support the theory. But, in theory there is no difference between theory and practice; in practice there is. Thank you, Yogi!

[jdeegan]

My advice is to ignore free BBO idies. The pay indies cost you approx. $1 USD per hour. For your dollar you get a real duplicate event where about half the players are fairly good and most of the rest can, at least, play a little. SAYC Yellow Card is understood to be the system played - you cannot begin to establish partnership agreements in the time you have between hands in an indie. A real director is there. Cheats and trolls do exist on occasion but are kept under control.

In many tournaments well over 10% of participants have a BBO star (almost always a sign they can play, at least a little). Your results will be highly variable since you have no control over how good your partner will be on crucial hands. The flip side to that is that you will occasionally win or do well, AND you will improve your game by actually playing most of the time against, generally speaking, good bridge players.

Sure, you can play against a machine anytime, but you can also play against real (and pretty good) bridge players most of the time too. Why go to Vegas just to play the slots?

[wclucas42]

 GreenMan, on 2014-November-19, 12:10, said:

Same here: random free indie pards likely won't know inverted minors. P thought you had either 10+ or 13+ depending on what they were taught to begin with.

It hasn't escaped me "the other guy" could be posting about the dunce who jumped to 3 ♣ with only 7 points...

 ggwhiz, on 2014-November-19, 12:26, said:

I've played a lot of acbl indies for laughs and indeed you do have to take your lumps.

Most players I've seen have a profile that's workable and the first thing I do is chat something like, "Hi, your profile is good pard but no don't". Or sometimes the profile just says SAYC but I've never seen Gib mentioned. I don't even know what it is.

Most of my lumps come from play of the cards like the pard that led Queen from AQxxx against a suit. Of course every once in a while I'll open 1♣ - 1♥ to pard and they bid 1♠ on 8xxx instead of a negative double that they claim to play.

We play 3-board rounds and the strategy after watching your pard go down 2 in an easy cold contract on the first one is a whole different thread.

I don't think you can chat in the express tournaments, but... you can see their profile. I've never looked for it before. It isn't exactly obvious on a tablet, so thanks for mentioning it.

 barmar, on 2014-November-19, 13:21, said:

The most common default system in online bridge is SAYC. Assuming the GIB system (to ggwhiz -- GIB is the robots on BBO) is not a good idea.

And even that has to be taken conservatively. Many players claim to be playing SAYC, but they don't know everything in it. I think the most common misunderstanding is that they don't know about Jacoby 2NT.

You should basically just stick to Stayman, Jacoby transfers to majors, and ordinary Blackwood. If your partner has a profile that lists other conventions, agree to play their profile, perhaps with exceptions as ggwhiz suggests. Forget about splinters, NMF, 4SF, RKC, Texas transfers.

I snagged a copy of the SAYC booklet, can't say I really know the system. A quick read through and it pretty much backs up your convention suggestions. I appreciate the specific recommendations.

 Bbradley62, on 2014-November-19, 13:24, said:

You might check out some of the clubs, such as BBO Hornets, or BBO Fans, and some others... These tournaments are much less frequent, but they're also a little less random.

Thanks for the club recommendations, I am just starting to check them out know.

 barmar, on 2014-November-19, 13:41, said:

Indies are a total crapshoot, try not to take them too seriously.

but... but... but... :\
Seriously It's not the results, as much as just not trying to shoot myself in the foot.

Thanks for all the comments and recommendations, knowing I can actually see the CHO's profile, and if not overly helpful fall back to SAYC should improve the experience. The always on nature of the free express tournaments definitely fits my schedule, but it appears as if some of the clubs have schedules that seem to fit well with when I am able to play.

[wclucas42]

 jdeegan, on 2014-November-20, 02:02, said:

My advice is to ignore free BBO idies. The pay indies cost you approx. $1 USD per hour. For your dollar you get a real duplicate event where about half the players are fairly good and most of the rest can, at least, play a little. SAYC Yellow Card is understood to be the system played - you cannot begin to establish partnership agreements in the time you have between hands in an indie. A real director is there. Cheats and trolls do exist on occasion but are kept under control.

In many tournaments well over 10% of participants have a BBO star (almost always a sign they can play, at least a little). Your results will be highly variable since you have no control over how good your partner will be on crucial hands. The flip side to that is that you will occasionally win or do well, AND you will improve your game by actually playing most of the time against, generally speaking, good bridge players.

Sure, you can play against a machine anytime, but you can also play against real (and pretty good) bridge players most of the time too. Why go to Vegas just to play the slots?

Yeah I am going to have to bite the bullet and get me some of those BBO dollars. Inertia has been the biggest impediment so far on that front. I was recently gifted 5 of them for the purpose of renting bots for creating practice hands for my wife and some friends who are trying to learn... Using it for tournaments didn't feel quite kosher.

[Fluffy]

Can't miss the chance to advertise my webpage, with 340+ free problems where your partner's bidding doesn't suck (but obviously you won't agree with all that he does). www.bridgegod.com

[jdeegan]

 wclucas42, on 2014-November-20, 08:58, said:

Yeah I am going to have to bite the bullet and get me some of those BBO dollars. Inertia has been the biggest impediment so far on that front. I was recently gifted 5 of them for the purpose of renting bots for creating practice hands for my wife and some friends who are trying to learn... Using it for tournaments didn't feel quite kosher.

When and if you and your friends jump into the world of real life BBO indies, almost without doubt you will get killed for a while. That is how we learn, and the price is cheap. It all depends, ultimately, on how much you like the game.

[keylime]

At indys, I try to play SAYC just to keep things as simple as possible. Get your scores from accurate defense and superior declaring.

[wclucas42]

Fluffy said:

1416500109[/url]' post='820713']
Can't miss the chance to advertise my webpage, with 340+ free problems where your partner's bidding doesn't suck (but obviously you won't agree with all that he does). www.bridgegod.com

Nice web site, it consumed my lunch hour today.

jdeegan said:

1416511994[/url]' post='820737']
When and if you and your friends jump into the world of real life BBO indies, almost without doubt you will get killed for a while. That is how we learn, and the price is cheap. It all depends, ultimately, on how much you like the game.

It's been made clear, their interest is only social, so I'm not expecting much on the duplicate front... Which leaves me to take my licks alone. I agree, the price is right.

[wclucas42]

keylime said:

1416515672[/url]' post='820745']
At indys, I try to play SAYC just to keep things as simple as possible. Get your scores from accurate defense and superior declaring.

I would first need to be both accurate at defense and superior at declaring, I'll continue to work on both.

[jdeegan]

Just for laffs, I recently tried a session playing against the robot. Imo, it is like going to the batting cage in order to learn how to hit a baseball. Good for practice but not actually the real thing.

[barmar]

 jdeegan, on 2014-November-21, 10:46, said:

Just for laffs, I recently tried a session playing against the robot. Imo, it is like going to the batting cage in order to learn how to hit a baseball. Good for practice but not actually the real thing.

I play against the robots a lot, and I agree. I know it can't be as hard as real bridge, because I'm far more successful in robot duplicates than I am in f2f tournaments. After a while, you learn the robots' foibles and how to take advantage of them, so all I know is that I've picked up on their bad habits better than many other players.