[straube]

At NV, we frequently open 2M with goodish 5-cd suits. These hands tend also to be minimum (so bad hand bad suit). Would it make sense for a 2N inquiry to be nf and not fitting? Opener could then pass with these embarrassments and his rebids would more meaningfully describe 6-cd holdings.

Of course we would need other bids to force when responder insist on game. When holding even 2-cd support a bid of 2M-1 leaves enough room to find min/max and arrive in 3M, 3N or 4M. Often those are the only contracts responder has in mind. Perhaps 2M-1 should promise 3-cd support though.

That leaves (in the case of spades) the bids of 3C and 3D available. Probably 3C would ask shape and be game forcing and 3D would show hearts.

Is this any good?

[foobar]

Off the top of my head, I don't think that it's such a good idea.

1) Opener may very well have a 6-card suit and IMO, "frequently" and "bad suit" overstate the actual frequency and nature of 5-card suit openings in 1st and 2nd seat

2) 2M may very well make or may do down undoubled NV (which typically isn't too bad)

3) Bidding 2N takes the pressure off 4th hand

[straube]

foobar, on 2014-June-25, 18:53, said:

Off the top of my head, I don't think that it's such a good idea.

1) Opener may very well have a 6-card suit and IMO, "frequently" and "bad suit" overstate the actual frequency and nature of 5-card suit openings in 1st and 2nd seat

2) 2M may very well make or may do down undoubled NV (which typically isn't too bad)

3) Bidding 2N takes the pressure off 4th hand

I meant for 2N to be misfitting but invitational...not running from 2M. The problem I see is that if 2N is forcing but requires only invitational strength yet responder has a minimum with only a 5-cd suit, we are in la la land whenever responder is short the major.

[the hog]

Let me ask you a question. You open 1NT. What do you do with a 5 card M? Transfer. So why do you want to play in a non fit 2NT with 5 cards in a M opposite? This is a very silly idea.

[straube]

the hog, on 2014-June-25, 21:34, said:

Let me ask you a question. You open 1NT. What do you do with a 5 card M? Transfer. So why do you want to play in a non fit 2NT with 5 cards in a M opposite? This is a very silly idea.

It's not that I want to play 2N. It's that I don't want to wind up in 3M on a 5-1 fit or 3N without the strength for it. The idea may not be good, but I have a concern I am trying to address.

[whereagles]

I used to play 5 cards weak twos in all suits NV. Style was very undisciplined, opening on both 5 and 6 card suits, min and max hands.

There was some randomness around, but I never felt the need for a natural 2NT. I did find it important to have 2NT as a relay, though.

On the plus side, we did bid a lot. And I really mean a lot. Sometimes too much, in fact

[Cyberyeti]

whereagles, on 2014-June-26, 00:18, said:

I used to play 5 cards weak twos in all suits NV. Style was very undisciplined, opening on both 5 and 6 card suits, min and max hands.

There was some randomness around, but I never felt the need for a natural 2NT. I did find it important to have 2NT as a relay, though.

On the plus side, we did bid a lot. And I really mean a lot. Sometimes too much, in fact

We do it on 4

We use 2N as a forcing ask, but play suit bids as highly encouraging but NF.