[Cyberyeti]

 cherdano, on 2014-February-20, 03:30, said:

That's a very strange assumption to make. I am not sure I have ever seen a system where 2♦ denies 3 spades. There is also small hint in the OP that this pair wasn't playing such a system.


Sigh. I did not say "impossible", I did say "unlikely". Your construction requires
- both remaining spades with partner (let's be generous and say that's 25%), and
- one of them to be the ace (20% as he has 2 out of the 10 outstanding hearts).
That's 5% odds even if you think a preempt with QJT-8th is exactly as likely as with AQJ-8th.

When someone disagrees with your post, do you actually think about the criticism, or do you just auto-reply defending your previous post?

Do you even read my replies, my hand was an example. x, xx, AKxxxx, Axxx has much the same effect, and I have no reason to suppose there are 8 hearts there anyway, AQJ10 7th will do this quite often at this vul, and pretty much ANY hand with 8 hearts to an honour will. I'm unsure of what people do with 3 spades and a diamond suit playing 5M which I never do.

While my construction may be unlikely, IMO there is little damage done when it's not present, partner will usually have something sensible to do (like bid 4♠ much of the time). It's only seriously wrong when partner has a hand with a singleton or void in spades where you actually want to play 4♠ which I think is quite unlikely (given that +300 at teams is no disaster). I'd expect to be doubling 4♥ with many hands with only 5 spades and less than 3 diamonds here, so I'd expect partner to bid 4♠ on most doubletons.

Quote

There is also small hint in the OP that this pair wasn't playing such a system.

yes, but if I have an 8 card suit I bid it in front of a raise, the question is what I do if it's a more normal 5 card suit.

[PhilKing]

FWIW I would bid 4♠ here on a two card suit approximately never. I would double. Penalties is too strong a word - double shows a normal 2 over 1 with defensive values/shape.

[Cyberyeti]

 PhilKing, on 2014-February-20, 04:37, said:

FWIW I would bid 4♠ here on a two card suit approximately never. I would double. Penalties is too strong a word - double shows a normal 2 over 1 with defensive values/shape.

With a singleton heart ? I can't imagine any hand on which I double with a stiff heart, 2164 surely bids 4♠ ?

[cherdano]

 Cyberyeti, on 2014-February-20, 04:12, said:

I'm unsure of what people do with 3 spades and a diamond suit playing 5M which I never do.

Then why do you post strong opinions in the expert-class forum?

[Cyberyeti]

 cherdano, on 2014-February-20, 06:35, said:

Then why do you post strong opinions in the expert-class forum?

Because at the time I posted my original point, I didn't think it mattered too much. Experts who don't understand Acol post ludicrous stuff in Acol threads, it happens.

[whereagles]

It's a guess and my guess is 5♦. From my experience, 4S being cold 5D being hopeless is virtually impossible; the other way around is much more likely. Especially if RHO is looking at a spade stack.. (not unlikely in this bidding)

[ahydra]

Expert forum notwithstanding, what do you call an eight-card suit?

Having gone for 500 the hard way the other day playing in a 4-3 fit instead of my AKQxxxx, I've learnt my lesson and wouldn't consider anything but 5D here. If we don't like it, perhaps we shouldn't GF with this...

ahydra