[mr1303]

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From a recent teams match. No particular state of the match issues.

Partner won't notice if you bid 2S with plenty of sighs. But do you anyway? How close is it?

[paulg]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of bidding, hard to imagine anything other than bidding 2♠. With such a suit I expect I'd find a reason to bid even if I held three small diamonds.

[billw55]

I think you made a mistake, you must have meant that partner will sigh in the postmortem if I don't bid 2♠. Right?

[helene_t]

I would bid but it's close. With three small diamonds I would pass. Not sure about two small ones ....

[Zelandakh]

I do not think it is close at all. If you cannot bid with an AKQxxx major and shortage in their suit then the game is too hard. That the major is also spades is gravy.

[blackshoe]

Last time I did that, partner jumped to game. I went down one. She asked me why the hell I bid with such a bad hand.

[Zelandakh]

blackshoe, on 2014-January-31, 08:45, said:

Last time I did that, partner jumped to game. I went down one. She asked me why the hell I bid with such a bad hand.

She expected more than 6 tricks for a 2 level overcall? Perhaps it was just her immediate disappointment speaking and she would see it differently if she anaylsed the results later in peace.

[Lord Molyb]

A seven loser hand and 5-6 tricks as well as diamond shortage is enough to bid 2♠.

[Lord Molyb]

x post

[blackshoe]

Zelandakh, on 2014-January-31, 09:04, said:

She expected more than 6 tricks for a 2 level overcall? Perhaps it was just her immediate disappointment speaking and she would see it differently if she anaylsed the results later in peace.

You don't understand. I'm the guy in this partnership. Therefore, if something goes wrong, it is always my fault.

[Zelandakh]

blackshoe, on 2014-January-31, 09:53, said:

You don't understand. I'm the guy in this partnership. Therefore, if something goes wrong, it is always my fault.

I can point to plenty of counter examples. Unltimately, if she cannot face up to her own mistakes she will not be able to fully improve as a player so if you genuinely feel this is the cae you are not doing her any favours by playing along.

[the_clown]

2♠

[mycroft]

There's a great deal of difference between "6 tricks with no hope of developing any more" and "3 or 4 tricks with lots of development opportunities with complementary stuff in partner's hand". In fact, it's the difference between a preempt and an opening bid. Those who would open preempts (like, say, AKQxxx and a singleton, and no other honour) 1♠, showing a "good opener", are happy to bid 2♠ with this hand. Those who would open this a strong 2♠, or 3♠ for that matter, aren't happy to bid 2♠ with this hand, because partner will go to game not with 4 tricks, but with a hand-full-of-helpers that will develop your opportunities into tricks. That same partner will not raise a 2♠ (or 3♠) preempt to game with that hand, because she knows that helpers are useless, only tricks count.

I will bid 2♠ because I can't not - but I will take the blame for 4♠-1, or 5 or 6♠-1 when my partner can't take a joke. And it *will be* my fault.

[Fluffy]

mycroft, on 2014-January-31, 11:23, said:

There's a great deal of difference between "6 tricks with no hope of developing any more" and "3 or 4 tricks with lots of development opportunities with complementary stuff in partner's hand". In fact, it's the difference between a preempt and an opening bid. Those who would open preempts (like, say, AKQxxx and a singleton, and no other honour) 1♠, showing a "good opener", are happy to bid 2♠ with this hand. Those who would open this a strong 2♠, or 3♠ for that matter, aren't happy to bid 2♠ with this hand, because partner will go to game not with 4 tricks, but with a hand-full-of-helpers that will develop your opportunities into tricks. That same partner will not raise a 2♠ (or 3♠) preempt to game with that hand, because she knows that helpers are useless, only tricks count.

I will bid 2♠ because I can't not - but I will take the blame for 4♠-1, or 5 or 6♠-1 when my partner can't take a joke. And it *will be* my fault.

I agree with everything you said, but there is something extra on this hand, complementary honors in partner´s hands will be on hearts and clubs, and they rate to be onside, even a Qxx can easily become a trick.

[the hog]

mycroft, on 2014-January-31, 11:23, said:

There's a great deal of difference between "6 tricks with no hope of developing any more" and "3 or 4 tricks with lots of development opportunities with complementary stuff in partner's hand". In fact, it's the difference between a preempt and an opening bid. Those who would open preempts (like, say, AKQxxx and a singleton, and no other honour) 1♠, showing a "good opener", are happy to bid 2♠ with this hand. Those who would open this a strong 2♠, or 3♠ for that matter, aren't happy to bid 2♠ with this hand, because partner will go to game not with 4 tricks, but with a hand-full-of-helpers that will develop your opportunities into tricks. That same partner will not raise a 2♠ (or 3♠) preempt to game with that hand, because she knows that helpers are useless, only tricks count.

I will bid 2♠ because I can't not - but I will take the blame for 4♠-1, or 5 or 6♠-1 when my partner can't take a joke. And it *will be* my fault.

The first sensible post in this thread.. If a raise to game goes off, it is YOUR fault.

[HighLow21]

2♠ only because I can't not -- and I have every reason to expect we will get 1 level too high.

[billw55]

Still not sure I understand the hesitancy. We are overcalling a weak opening, it's not like we are bidding 2♥ over 1♠ or something.

[MrAce]

2♠ it is.

[mycroft]

billw55, on 2014-February-03, 07:39, said:

Still not sure I understand the hesitancy. We are overcalling a weak opening, it's not like we are bidding 2♥ over 1♠ or something.

I would *much rather* have this hand (with the pointed suits reversed, of course) when I bid 2♥ over 1♠ than in this case. Partner knows what I have when I do that, and I know where more of the points are (so it's much less likely that I'm going to be launched into game).

Preempts *work*, and they work by taking up space so that you can't describe all the hands you have that you could describe if they had passed. If I pass this hand (which I won't, but maybe AKJ8xx and the same shape?), and partner doubles in fourth, I can bid 4♠ and be very happy (or, if you double really light in balance, 3♠; partner will DTRT). If I bid 2♠ and partner has a bit under the hand where they would double in fourth, they'll go to game, and we may go down if all he has is quacks and diamond cards. If I bid 2♠ and partner has a 16, 17 count, by the time he realizes we were joking we're in 5♠ (or, if he happens to have controls, will raise 5♠ KC response to slam) and we won't have any quick losers - but we won't have 12 winners either.

If you overcall routinely on hands that are this weak, you're going to pay for it when partner with 10-12 doesn't know if you have this hand or the 5-spades 13-plus-a-singleton that you're "supposed to have" - and you'll pay in +170s.

[billw55]

mycroft, on 2014-February-03, 12:06, said:

If you overcall routinely on hands that are this weak, you're going to pay for it when partner with 10-12 doesn't know if you have this hand or the 5-spades 13-plus-a-singleton that you're "supposed to have" - and you'll pay in +170s.

No, I'll pay in -50s after partner bids 3♦.